Ep. 2 - Providing Equine Assisted Services For Veterans Diagnosed With PTSD And TBI. Talking With Rhonda Fritzshall And Nongae Johnson, HERD Foundation, Delray Beach, Florida

When Rhonda Fritzshall and Nongae Johnson, the dedicated souls behind HERD Foundation, sat down with me, we didn't just chat about equine-assisted services for veterans - we ventured into the profound impact that horses can have on the human spirit. Rhonda's transition from her farm upbringing and mental health expertise to founding HERD Foundation with Nongae, a horse aficionado with a colorful equestrian background, is nothing short of inspiring. Together, they're crafting a space where veterans can discover belonging and connection in the presence of horses like Fig Newton, Stitch and Sammy, and where I too, as a veteran diagnosed with PTSD, went thru the HERD Foundation Freedom Patch programs and witnessed first hand the indescribable connections between man and horse.

There's something miraculous that happens when a veteran and a horse lock eyes for the first time - a moment of unspoken understanding that HERD Foundation captures in their programs. Our discussion digs into the heart of this connection, unearthing the partnerships formed not just within the military community but also in the therapeutic embrace of Cinnamon and Miss America, the foundation's gentle giants. As veterans learn to communicate without words with these majestic creatures, they also learn to care for themselves, all under the attentive guidance of Rhonda and Nongae's carefully curated programs.

If our conversation has stirred something within you, imagine what attending HERD Foundation's upcoming  Dining at the Farm Fundraiser might ignite. Picture an evening spent under the stars with the soft nickers of horses in the background, live music setting the tone, and the thrill of a silent auction—all in support of a cause that's redefining veteran support. Your participation in our VetsConnect community, from sharing this podcast to embarking on a journey with us, can help ensure that the soothing clip-clop of hooves continues to echo as a beacon of hope for those who have served. Go to Herdfoundation.org to buy tickets or to donate to this amazing program for our veterans.

Transcript

Scott: 0:22

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. My guests today are Rhonda Fritschall and Nungay Johnson from Herd Foundation in Delray Beach, Florida. Herd Foundation is a non-profit that offers equine-assisted services to veterans. Now, full disclosure, full transparency. I have been a beneficiary of Herd Foundation's equine assisted services for over a year and a half now, so I thought it was fitting that I bring Rhonda and Nungay on as my first interview. So if there's a sense of friendship in this interview, well it is. That is what it is, Because these two are two of my favorite people in the world. So, with that said, Rhonda Nungay, how are you guys today?

Nongae Johnson: 1:12

Super Fantastic.

Scott: 1:15

So, rhonda, I'll start with you. Tell us a little about yourself.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 1:20

Okay, well, very short and sweet. I was born in DC, came to Florida in 1981 with my family. First of all backing up as a three-year-old, I lived on a farm and was always trying to find my way back to that farm. I always felt a really strong need, even as a little girl, to provide a safe place for people. I had a lot of empathy. I went into the field of teaching, which led me to mental health career prevention for children and families. I ended up on the farm here about over 10 years ago. I was the director of a children's prevention program and that's where I met Nange.

Scott: 2:06

Nongae. Give us a little background on yourself.

Nongae Johnson: 2:08

I was born loving horses and just figured out a way to work with them so that I can be with my true love, and it's just grown into something bigger and more than I could even imagine. Because I was on the riding side, I drove carriages in the city, hot-walked horses at Belmont, and now I get to work with horses and help people and veterans.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 2:37

All right.

Scott: 2:39

So with that, how did Herd Foundation come about?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 2:43

Well, we had been doing this work together for a while and what happened was Nage and I started scholarshiping clients and we came up with the idea that maybe we should start a nonprofit. So we started that process and here we are today.

Nongae Johnson: 3:05

Then I found out her dad was an Army veteran, and so was my dad, and I said oh, let's work with veterans.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 3:12

The concept that we wanted to approach working with veterans was not about a diagnosis, not about therapy, but about providing a place of belonging and connection for veterans. I just kept learning more and more about our herd and how they showed up as a what I call a family and their dynamics, and so it was important to us that maybe we called this foundation herd because that became super important. This family has always been important to both of us. Our herd of horses.

Scott: 3:52

Yes, so how many horses are in your herd?

Nongae Johnson: 3:55

We have a couple that we use outside of that herd, but we have five primary horses.

Scott: 4:01

And these are the horses that work with the veterans, strictly with veterans.

Nongae Johnson: 4:05

Yes, yes, at work with the veterans, strictly with veterans, yes, yes. And going back to what we do in our groups with veterans, is that we've we learned that working with the horses, how much, how much we learn about ourselves, and it doesn't have to be therapybased. When you start to become more confident working with the horses on the ground, you start to build that connection and that grows with the veterans, with themselves and with the horses. It's very hard to explain because it's so experiential, but we do do a lot of groundwork, horsemanship, and it goes from there.

Scott: 4:48

What do you want the veteran to get out of this?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 4:51

What's most important to horses is feeling safe and comfort, so I think that's what we would want them to walk on the farm with. I remember our first group over five years ago and people were walking in the farm through the gate and they were all coming in separately and we watched them walk out and they were all walking out together and I just that was such an imprint for me that wow, this is really going to be amazing.

Scott: 5:23

How many facilitators do you have? How many?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 5:26

facilitators do you have? We have about, I think about. We have a team of over five.

Scott: 5:34

How many different veterans groups do you have coming in in a week?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 5:38

We have four tracks right now. We have what we call Freedom Patch One, which is an eight-week program, and we always start with just observation, so veterans can learn a little bit about horses and communication and their dynamics.

Scott: 5:59

And that's Freedom Patch 1, and it's eight weeks.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 6:02

Yes.

Scott: 6:03

What comes after that?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 6:04

Freedom, patch 2. That's if the veteran decides that they would like to continue to deepen their relationship with the horses, each other and has anybody not gone from freedom patch one to freedom patch two? For maybe various reasons, like leaving out of town, going back home somewhere yes, but mostly people are. The veterans are really excited to move on to that next phase, so it's a slow build.

Scott: 6:35

They come in and learn basics in Freedom Patch 1 and then they start implementing in Freedom Patch 2.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 6:42

Right.

Scott: 6:42

Basically a little more advanced. And Rhonda and Nungay, you two do the Freedom Patch 2 program, right? Yes, you take the veterans and so for eight weeks they get a little more advanced groundwork training. But involved in that isn't just the doing the work with the horse, right? There's that connection that you watch happen.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 7:09

So tell me what you've experienced with that, like your observations on these things well I it brings me back to your group my group you had an exceptional group that went all the way through freedom patch one and then freedom patch two, and I think we actually ended up for the first time extending Freedom Patch 2.

Scott: 7:30

Yeah, we had an extra four weeks, I think.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 7:32

Was it four.

Scott: 7:33

Something like that.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 7:34

And it was just the connection, the bonding. One of my favorite things that happens when veterans are together and they start learning about different branches is that banter and you guys really, really built some strong bonds because we're we're from different branches of the service from different times air force, coast guard, navy, marines, army, you know.

Scott: 8:03

So that dynamic is is pretty interesting. When we all sit down together it always comes out, no matter how long we served, you know when someone served and you know it's just always that kind of built-in rivalry, but we do kind of form a herd. So give us an example, like what you would say is something that you witnessed, that from a veteran, that you just stood back and said, wow, I can't believe what just happened there. Or wow, they just said something that like really was amazing and dealing with their interactions with the horses, their feedback to you.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 8:48

Rhonda there are so many that come to mind, I think, just going back to just, I'll start with just even yesterday, when you handed out the challenge coins to the participants from the domiciliary and the one veteran began to cry and he said that he was going to make it into something he could put around his neck and keep with him forever. That's how much this meant to him. The other participant in that group who really didn't talk a lot through the four weeks, said that the reason why he was sitting there yesterday in that graduation was because of the program that, had he not come last week, that he was in such a bad space that he probably would have left the dom or been kicked out. But his, his mindset and his mood had changed so much from being here with the horses that he was sitting there yesterday receiving his challenge coin and his certificate of completion.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 9:54

So the domiciliary is the domiciliary is a residential program for veterans at West Palm Beach VA Medical Center. It's on the grounds. On the grounds they treat mental health and substance disorders and also veterans experiencing homelessness.

Scott: 10:23

We were actually chosen to provide them with equine-assisted services right from the beginning, when their doors opened. So how do the veterans find you? How do they end up at Herd Foundation?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 10:32

There's some consults from various providers at the VA, so maybe a doctor, a psychiatrist will give a veteran a consult to come in and see us, come and be with us for an eight-week group. But we've really kind of grown and expanded in the community so we're getting a lot of phone calls. People are starting to know about our program and what we offer, so it's not limited to the VA.

Scott: 11:03

And I can personally speak on. I was referred by the VA. I didn't want to get into my story. This is about you guys and that's how I got there. But I know there's other avenues that people but they do find us, they do find Herd Foundation.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 11:19

Yeah, we've all and we have. We've had an agreement with the VA ever since the very, very beginning when we started, so it's called an MOU, a Memorandum of Understanding, and we're on our second three-year agreement with them.

Scott: 11:34

And so is this every day. Is it once a week that they come in? What's the timeframe that the veterans come in to do the Freedom Patch 1 and 2 programs?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 11:45

So on Tuesdays at 8.30 to 10 is Freedom Patch 1 once a week for 90 minutes and Freedom Patch 2 is right after. That starts at 10 o'clock and then backing up the domiciliaries on Mondays. That's a four-week group now because the domiciliary went from 40 beds to 60 beds.

Scott: 12:08

so they want as many veterans to be able to experience this program, so they they shortened it just a little bit and just from my experience in working with the veterans from the domiciliary, you always get a group that comes in and somebody says, oh so, and so told me I, I should come here. So I was really wanting to come here. So it's word of mouth also, because that's not a mandatory program for the Dom to go to, it's voluntary. And they always say, oh, I'm glad I came, you know, I'm glad I came. And then there's my favorite part of it. So here's where my knowledge of Herd Foundation comes in. It's Fallen Friday. And Fallen Friday is, once you graduate, freedom Patch 1 and Freedom Patch 2. Fallen Friday is a drop-in group, right?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 12:59

Yes.

Scott: 13:00

It's a drop-in for the people that graduated from Freedom Patch 1 and Freedom Patch 2.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 13:05

Yes.

Scott: 13:06

And it's every Friday. And the thing I found amazing about this is it is the aftercare that never ends. It's always there every friday. That's very hard to find in any group, any non-profit, for-profit, any organization, but you guys made it so and I am the beneficiary of that also.

Nongae Johnson: 13:30

Well, I think that before you even go there is that my favorite the shift in someone's demeanor or feeling or presence. Their energy changes and I just always feel like that person's in there. And that's my goal to show them how the horses do that without them, even knowing it's going to happen. They can fight it, but hard to fight with such a beautiful animal.

Scott: 13:56

And you've heard it. I've heard it. Some people like well, you know, I don't know, I might not be back next week, but they always seem to come back, which is amazing. So who are the horses in the herd? What are their names?

Nongae Johnson: 14:10

Fig Newton, stitch, sammy Cinnamon and Miss America.

Scott: 14:15

Can you give us a little background on each horse?

Nongae Johnson: 14:18

One is a retired racehorse, two are miniatures. One is a retired jumper, the other one is a retired dressage horse, all very good at their previous jobs. These horses are not working. They see people coming through that gate and they are ready to go play. They love to, because we're also explaining to the people, the humans. This is how we're going to communicate with the horses.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 14:53

I think that's such an important part of our program is that the horses are equally as important in that relationship. We would never override a horse's well-being to meet a human need, if that makes sense. They're there as as as part of part of that relationship, and something that I've been thinking about lately, which is kind of cool, is that you know, all of our horses have stories and you know, you hear, you hear stories, you hear certain things, but something I heard recently at a summit that Nange and I went to was that they all have past, but they have a present and they have a future. And that's what's most important, because sometimes we can get stuck, and that was what was described to me with working with veterans is sometimes you get stuck in that part of your brain and you can't get out. With working with veterans is sometimes you get stuck in that part of your brain and you can't get out, and so not getting stuck in the past stories and being able to learn how to be present and be hopeful for a future.

Scott: 15:59

So the goal of this podcast is to connect nonprofits with other nonprofits and also make veterans aware of these nonprofits, which is one of the reasons I decided to do this. Do you guys collaborate with other nonprofits? Are there any that connect with Herd Foundation?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 16:19

Sure, we've really built a lot of relationships over the last several years, but mostly after over the last two years. Once we're kind of getting past that five-year point. If you can be sustainable after five years, that's a pretty big deal. But yes, we do have some really great relationships with other programs serving veterans. We've worked with other programs that maybe they've had veterans coming from out of state and coming here to do some personal work and reached out to us because maybe I think there was a couple of veterans that missed being around horses. They had relationships with horses. They sought out programs that worked with horses and veterans. They sought out programs that worked with horses and veterans. One in particular, 22 Project called me and said we have a veteran, he's from out of state, he misses his horses and he's really homesick and we said bring him over and we worked with him for quite a few weeks and it was really amazing.

Nongae Johnson: 17:30

And he was excited right to go home and play these games with his horses.

Scott: 17:32

Ah, you don't just say, hey, here you go, pet the horse. You actually show them what herd foundation does, do a little groundwork with them. You kind of get them to interact with the horse, right.

Nongae Johnson: 17:45

How to listen. That's what I was going to say. You know, you can do all the talking. You can handle a horse, put his halter on, move his feet, but you know, are you listening? And that's when it really. That's when it happens, when you start to realize that, whoa, I've got to have a dialogue with this horse. And how do I show this horse that I'm listening? If both of us are always talking, who's listening? And if that horse doesn't feel value, you could just only imagine. And they adapt, don't feel bad. Horses have survived 65 million years. They build strategies how to cope.

Scott: 18:25

So let me ask you this, nungate and I'm only going to ask you this because I've heard you kind of mention it a couple of times that you used to have one way of thinking and then, along the way, you just you kind of changed your thought process on on the horses, on working with the horses or understanding the horses. Am I, uh, correct in that, or? A hundred percent can you kind of tell us a little bit about that, what that transition was?

Nongae Johnson: 18:50

Wow, I don't. I don't. I'm not even sure how it happened. It just happened. I'm trying to run a business boarding business with lessons and I got involved with a rehab center and I thought, all right, well, another you know revenue stream. And I thought, all right well, another you know revenue stream. And I started doing these groups. And it took a long time to really understand that it's not woo, woo. And so we developed our own, our own way, our own model of how our program works, of how our program works.

Nongae Johnson: 19:33

We've taken a little bit from each of our knowledge and education and experience and just combined it into what we feel works really well for everyone. And the fun part is we're growing, and the more we grow, the more we can give. And it's all the horses, it's the horses and it's just listening. Open your eyes, step back, watch and wait. Keep your mind open. How do we do that mind? How do you do that? How does somebody do that? But you put it in front of a horse and the horse tells you you could be listening to people telling you for your whole life and all of a sudden the horse tells you you're like whoa well, that's kind of have you on a podcast, scott, and ask you, how did that happen for you?

Scott: 20:26

yeah, that, and you guys know the story, you know my story and it was well, I don't know how it felt for you feeling like you know I don't. I watched it but right, we'll, we'll discuss that in private. I don't want this again to be about me. It is a very fascinating uh transformation that I witnessed personally and again, again. You know, see, I don't even think, because I see you all the time and I don't think that that's like we never really have that conversation, but we will, we will have that conversation.

Nongae Johnson: 20:59

And if we don't, that's okay too. But just so you know, your audience knows it's so experiential, it's really what it's called and like wow, what is that? Well, I don't know. You know there's some things that they're hard to describe.

Scott: 21:14

You have to experience it, it is the coolest feeling in the world In my personal experience, and I will say this is you can pet a horse, you can walk with a horse, you can groom a horse. That's all good, it's all good stuff, but there's nothing like when you connect with a horse. It is a really, really cool experience and you see it and you literally feel it. And it's so subtle because these big 12, 1300 pound animals who can do whatever they want at their will, they just let you have it, they just really give it to you in this. Hey, we're cool.

Nongae Johnson: 21:58

And then you realize that you're cool, that you're not connected and, like all this time, this is what's been missing. How did we know that? No, who taught us that? Who taught us that? Nobody taught us that. I have to agree with you, Scott.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 22:14

There's nothing like when a horse chooses you.

Scott: 22:19

Yeah, that was my experience, you know. So, fundraisers do you guys have fundraisers? Do you have anything coming up? Fundraisers do you guys have fundraisers? Do you have anything coming up? Do you have? Uh, is, because I know that you know the the unspoken thing about non-profits is is money and donations and supporters and grants. It's the gasoline that runs the engine and I know fundraisers are one of the things. Do you guys the third foundation have something coming up?

Rhonda Fritzshall: 22:47

I'm just going to back up for just a second, because I think this was important to us, was that we found out very quickly because we went into this with really good intentions, and we found out very quickly that you need a lot more than just good intentions.

Scott: 23:04

To start a nonprofit and run it.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 23:07

We have an incredible board of directors. Our team, everybody works really hard at fundraising. We have an incredible grant writer, private donations and, yes, we do have an event coming up on April 24th. It's going to be an event dining at the farm with the herd. We've always wanted to do this, but we're gonna.

Scott: 23:35

We're gonna do it april 24th and how if somebody who's, I assume, in the local area, wanted to attend this dining at the farm right, how would they go about it?

Nongae Johnson: 23:48

Go to the website herdfoundationorg, and it's pretty easy to navigate through our website.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 23:57

You can buy a ticket. Click away. Join us for dinner.

Scott: 24:01

Click away. So it's going to be dinner and what else is going on?

Nongae Johnson: 24:05

Music live music silent auction.

Scott: 24:10

Beverages Spirits.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 24:13

For everybody.

Scott: 24:15

Good food.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 24:16

Amazing food.

Scott: 24:17

Good food. What's the food going?

Nongae Johnson: 24:20

What else?

Scott: 24:23

What else? It's all good, the menu is good, but you have to buy a ticket to find out. It's all good. It's all good, the menu is good, but you have to buy a ticket to find out. It's all good, it's all good. Is there anything else you guys want to? I think we kind of covered everything. Did I cover that? You two are two of my most favorite people in the world? Did I say? That you could say it again and again I'd say it again I will and I will.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 24:45

I think what one thing I would say that just came to me is that this became much bigger. It was never about us and it became much bigger than us. And what we found out is that we couldn't do any of this without the human herd, the horse herd, participants, participants that this has grown yeah, the participants.

Nongae Johnson: 25:09

We didn't really count on that we would be, we would receive connection and I and I, I want and I want, do want to acknowledge that, um, you know, for some people to to think of this as a possibility to change their lives or make it better or just experience it with, you know, no intrepidation, and to come into an arena with five of these. You know a lot of people haven't been around horses ever. That would be me.

Scott: 25:41

I was one of them. I had no idea about horses, but now you can't get rid of them.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 25:46

We told you I'm dug in, we have plans for you. I planted rid of them. We told you I'm dug in, we have plans for you.

Scott: 25:51

I planted my feet. Yeah, you have plans for me. So once again, uh, herdfoundationorg for more information on herd foundation email. Is there an email in case someone might want to just use it right there on the website? Or it's on the website? Okay Well, nungay Rhonda, thank you so much for coming on.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 26:13

Thank you, Scott. Thanks for coming into our herd.

Scott: 26:17

Ah, yeah, well, I you know this could be a love fest right now. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't be doing this right now. But we'll stop at that because the listeners don't care.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 26:28

Thanks, Scott.

Scott: 26:30

All right, guys, and I will be talking to you guys later on. Bye, bye. All right, rhonda, I will call you as soon as this is done. All right, thank you for coming on.

Rhonda Fritzshall: 26:40

I appreciate it Love you I love you guys.

Scott: 26:43

Well, there you go. Herd Foundation in Delray Beach, florida. Again, you can reach them at herdfoundationorg. And I just want to say thank you for listening. If you like this podcast, share it. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, if you feel like giving me five stars, I'll take it. If you want to leave a comment, I'll take it.

Scott: 27:05

If you want to be on the podcast, if you're a nonprofit or a veteran that has benefited from a nonprofit, you can contact me at vetsconnectpodcast at gmailcom. I will answer your email. Like I said, if you're a nonprofit that's interested in coming on and having the whole show to yourself, you can contact me at vetsconnectpodcast at gmailcom. And again, if you like it, share it. I'd appreciate that and I'm always open to feedback. If you want to email me just to tell me how you like it, how you didn't like it, whatever you want, I'm open to it. We're going to be releasing an episode every Monday, so every Monday, expect a new nonprofit or a new story from Vets connect podcast. Until then, horses, energy, reflection, direction. That's heard. Foundation. I just thought I would end it with that one.