Ep. 14 - The VA's Proactive Approach To Assisting In The Transition Of Combat Veterans And Those Who Served Post-9/11. Talking With Transitional Patient Advocate, Jose Lopez-Rodriguez from the West Palm Beach VA.

Can the transition from military to civilian life be seamless? Join us as we uncover the inner workings of the Military 2 VA (M2VA) program with Jose Lopez Rodriguez, a dedicated Transitional Patient Advocate from the Department of Veterans Affairs in West Palm Beach, Florida. Jose shares the VA's proactive approach to assisting combat veterans and those who served post-9/11, ensuring they receive continuous medical care and benefits as they shift from active duty to civilian status. From pre-retirement preparations to outreach initiatives, learn about the crucial role these advocates play in supporting our veterans.

Hear an incredible tale of resilience and transformation as we spotlight a veteran from the Puerto Rican National Guard. After three combat deployments and facing unemployment and homelessness, his journey took a remarkable turn through the unwavering support of his wife and the VA's comprehensive programs. From battling PTSD to becoming a Peer Specialist and Transitional Patient Advocate himself, his story illustrates the profound impact of the VA's support systems and personal determination in rebuilding lives.

Discover the power of peer support in fostering stability for veterans. This episode sheds light on the shared challenges faced by both male and female veterans and the significant difference strong support networks can make. Be inspired by the stories of a young Coast Guard veteran with a traumatic brain injury and a homeless veteran who found stability after 15 years on the streets, thanks to dedicated assistance. These heartfelt narratives highlight the enduring importance of community and family in empowering veterans to overcome their obstacles and achieve lasting recovery.

Transcript

Scott: 0:22

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. My guest today is Jose Lopez Rodriguez. Jose is a transitional patient advocate, m2va, at the Department of Veterans Affairs in West Palm Beach, florida. How are you doing, jose?

Jose: 0:37

I'm good. How are you doing?

Scott: 0:38

Welcome to the kitchen studio.

Jose: 0:40

It's amazing.

Scott: 0:42

Well, unfortunately the chef called in sick today, so there's no lunch. I had it all lined up. It was going to be a big spread, but you know, help these days, right, that's good. Water will do it. Water will do. Water will do so. Jose, tell the listeners what a transitional patient advocate does and what's the M2VA designation.

Jose: 1:06

So we're starting. M2va is military 2va program, so it used to be a program that we deal with combat veterans and since the war started slowing down we change it to anybody that served after 9-11 with within that job, with that program, the military to VA program. I'm the transitional patient advocate. My main job is to deal with service members while they're still in active duty, around six months out before they retire. What I do is I talk to them and try to connect them with the VA services and continue whatever medical services they were getting in the military. Now that's half of my job. The other half of my job is to find those veterans that are already out of the service. By doing outreach I'll find them out there, connecting with the VA, connecting with appointments, whatever their needs are at the moment, kind of guide them to whatever they need at that time.

Scott: 2:06

So that's an interesting concept. So you get them from the VA, you get to the veterans before they get out, like six months prior.

Jose: 2:14

We kind of focus more on the medically retired veterans. So you are going through any medical issue where the military say you know we cannot do your job anymore, they transition you to the VA so the VA can continue your medical services. So that's that's the main concept, especially with a lot of them that they're you know get out, you're lost. Now you got to adjust to your civilian life. Everything that you knew is new for you now in the outside. So what we do we kind of connect them. We have a team of two case workers, case managers, social workers, one nurse and one supervisor. We take care of them, especially those guys that have TBI, ptsd and they feel lost when they come out. We try to guide them so they can get the better services, especially with the combat guys. They have special services that most veterans don't get. So the program is focused on that. It's focused on giving those benefits to those veterans that they needed the most.

Scott: 3:19

So it's more medical-oriented, it is medical-oriented, it is medical-oriented.

Jose: 3:24

We also brief them about other benefits like, for example, if they don't know about their GI Bill, their VN Home Loans, if they have any questions about all the other benefits that they earn while they were serving. So we brief them, we connect them with those services and if they need anything from the community, we will also connect them with that community resource.

Scott: 3:45

So six months out, and do you go to the military installations?

Jose: 3:51

You're right now in active duty and you're planning to retire, you go through the medical process. Back in the day we didn't have this process, but they call it the IDIS process. So what the IDIS process does is that it will connect you with the VA before you get out so you can apply for your disabilities before you get out. What they give you is like a proposed rating. So when you are out about a month, 60 days out you start collecting your checks without waiting the long wait period. Sometimes we have to wait after we get out of the service. So you're like a regular veteran and you put your retirement package and you leave. Now, when you got out, you have to put your claims on your own. But if you do the military to VA program in the base with the IDIS system, what's going to happen is you're going to have a caseworker together with you. We call it VA liaisons. So VA liaisons are in every military base across the United States and they will make referrals to places including us, the VA, and that's how we get those guys.

Jose: 4:54

Now it's not only my only job. Half of the other job is to find them out there. One of the main things I do is every morning anybody that comes to my enrollment team and they are post-911 veterans. They come in my list and I call each one of them, talking about 100, 200, 300 veterans every month that we call. Now If they answer or not, that's a different story, but at least we're trying to connect with them to see if they need case management, if they have a post-911, if they serve in the post-9-11 era, I will call them. At least anybody in West Palm Beach. I have TPAs in every major VA, so they do the same.

Scott: 5:34

Wow, so you're out there cold calling people veterans, veterans. To let them know this is available.

Jose: 5:42

Yes, we also go to Yellow Ribbons, national Guard bases, reserve bases, there's any base that we have close by. I work together with them, especially when they have Yellow Ribbons. The Yellow Ribbon is a program the Army has that when you get out, you go there, you get all the briefings, all the information. They talk to you, they talk to your family and they give you everything in one package. That wasn't done since they started, like in 2001.

Scott: 6:25

That was my next question. So this started in 2001, that's what. That was my next question. So this started in 2001. This whole program, this whole.

Jose: 6:32

I'll tell you, I wish it was around when, when I was getting out we learned from the vietnam vets and the gulf war all the things that we might need, and now they. We're doing it, we're doing it. We are there calling veterans, trying to connect them with the care that they deserve and need, and we do this every day.

Scott: 6:49

That's great man, that's great work. See, I didn't know any of this.

Jose: 6:53

Yes.

Scott: 6:53

And this is why we do this. Exactly, this is why we do this. If one veteran hears this podcast, then we made a difference. You made a difference.

Jose: 7:01

Yes, they can always connect with me. They can go to the VA Enrollment, will alert me if we have a post-9-11 veteran and I will talk to them about the benefits, what they need. Now, it's a main concept, because my job is VHA Veterans Health Administration so I work for the hospital itself. Most of the veterans that you see out there they want to talk about their benefits themselves. That's BVA Now. If that's the case, if they want to talk about their benefits themselves, that's BVA Now. If that's the case, that they want to talk about their benefits and compensation, I will refer them to the specialty and that will be a veteran service officer. We have plenty of them. They work for the state, they work for the county. They will put your claims in and help you out, but we focus more about your health and what the VA can do. I'm talking about mental health, physical health, TBI, PTSD, any problem with your knee, your back, and we'll connect you with the right resource that you might need for that particular situation and that's for.

Scott: 7:59

is that just for post 9-11 veterans?

Jose: 8:02

So again, my focus is post 9-11 veterans. But I'm out there in the community, I'm going to see any type of veterans. So in the community it's a little bit different because I'm not getting referrals from a medical facility. So what I will do is I will connect them with the care, See if they qualify for benefits, if they can qualify for the PAC Act.

Scott: 8:24

That's a big thing right now in the VA.

Jose: 8:26

If they were exposed who they talk to, who they have to register with, I connect them with the VA and set up appointments so they can continue their care at the VA.

Scott: 8:35

So you and I. We've met more than a few times at different outreach events through either the VA or Mission United. I've heard your story and you're very honest with it. Do you mind sharing some of that?

Jose: 8:52

Definitely definitely I brought my wife because of that she's here with us.

Scott: 8:56

Very lovely wife for the listeners. Very lovely wife, by the way.

Jose: 8:59

So we have a particular story because all the programs that I mentioned I participate as an employee but also as a veteran myself. I serve in the Puerto Rican National Guard and I did that 13 years in there, from 2002 to 2013. And then after that I have a breaking service and then after that I have a breaking service. In that breaking service, after three combat deployments, I went to Iraq in 2005. That's when I first became a veteran, went to the VA getting services, but I wasn't really into getting the services that I needed. I didn't know a lot.

Jose: 9:36

Then I kept going to deployments. My last one was in Djibouti, africa. One of the particulars is that I was a reserve. So with the reserves we were talking before that they have a particular situation. We have the best of both worlds but at the same time we have to keep both worlds open and nice. For example, you are good in the military. You got to keep up with that, but you have to have a civilian job so you can maintain yourself. And that also is a challenge because maybe you got problems with employers because you got to take off to go to the reserves and so on. Anybody that's serving the reserves. They know that you have to keep both and it's always a challenge.

Jose: 10:18

One of the biggest things that happened to me was after my last deployment to Africa. When I came back I lost my job because of the same situation. Then I came back home, talked to my wife. She convinced me to come to Florida. We moved everything we used to live in Puerto Rico. We're from Puerto Rico, we live, we did everything over there and then we tried a new challenge and we moved to Florida.

Jose: 10:42

Well, later that I know I was diagnosed with PTSD and the pressure and the challenges of the civilian life I couldn't keep up where I became drinking a lot of alcohol. I was angry all the time. I didn't know how to handle my emotions. My wife kept telling me you need help, you need help and I was reluctant to go to the VA. But with her support and her telling me every day, I finally ended up going to the VA, asked for help. I went actually to the post-deployment clinic, the military to VA program. I spoke with a social worker. The social worker connected me with all the cares that I need, including substance abuse for alcohol, anger management, group therapy, ptsd therapy. I ended up getting diagnosed. My first rating was really high. We were homeless. Because of that. My family, not my wife, I'm talking about my auntie. I used to live with my auntie here in Florida. We have problems because they didn't know how to handle me. I was an angry person. I hated everything. I couldn't stand. Imagine you being super hero for your country and coming and not going back to your house and losing everything. You now lost your identity. You lost everything that you know. In one place they welcomed you You're a great warrior. You came back home and then not having anything. So that was a really hard time in our life. And from there again, without the help of the VA, I wouldn't know the services that we have.

Jose: 12:24

They have a program. It's called HubBash. That program, what it does is provide you with an apartment for low income and then what you do is you go to that apartment, you follow the rules and you stay there as long as you need to. You pay half the rent and then they pay the other half. That was good for the time, because at that time we didn't have nothing. The rents in Florida were not the same as Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico back then, a three bedroom is like $300. When we got here it was $1,000. And you're talking about before COVID. Here was for a thousand dollars, and you're talking about before COVID. Now it's even worse, but at that time we needed a lot. What we did is we used the program and while I was in the program I kept going back to college.

Jose: 13:10

I finished my degree and after I finished my degree, while I was getting therapy almost every day, I used to travel to the VA three times a week in the train or in the bus until I got you know, confident enough to go out there. One of the good things is that while I was going to college, the VA have a program for interns and I use that as a benefit for myself. And I went to the VA. I met a lot of people and I ended up getting hired as a peer specialist. What is a peer specialist? It's a veteran that's been through it and recovered and now I teach others how to recover from it.

Jose: 13:50

In that program I used to find homeless veterans in the community In Palm Beach County. A lot of the people know me because of that. I went out there. I used to go to the wool lines Anywhere there was homeless camps and I would find a veteran get in an apartment and move on. That was part of my therapy for many, many years. You know, being through the situation that we went through now, helping others, it was amazing Because you can see when you give those keys to that veteran and that veteran had been there for like what 10 years. I've seen guys that 20 years in the street and they get the first apartment and then shop and it's an amazing feeling.

Jose: 14:32

And 2021, I became the transitional patient advocate. I see my leadership, saw what I was doing and how good I was at it, and then they gave me a promotion to this job and this job. Now I'm, you know, promoting the VA everywhere I go, telling the veterans what I did, how I did it and if they can do it too. There's a lot of services in the VA. We have employment. That's where I did my internship. I got the housing program. I got the post-deployment program. I also got problems with my back. We are still struggling with PTSD. That's going to be forever.

Jose: 15:04

I keep going to appointments and they didn't fail me. Now, being realistic, you know everything is perfect. Sometimes you're going to go to a VA, you're going to have a bad day it's like everything else, but you take it in a different way, then you might benefit from what they have. There's a lot of things that you don't know and then you're like reluctant, and you're like I don't want to take this, I don't want to do this. But give you a chance, give you an opportunity, try it. Let's see One of the things that will let us appear. For example, when we're talking about medications, the doctor can give you 20 medication. I don't know what the medication is going to do to me unless I try. Now I usually I try almost everything. They did, uh, exposure therapy medications uh, I didn't. I went out there to do tai chi. I did a lot, even fishing for therapy, it was, and all those things together kind of helped.

Jose: 16:02

Another benefit that the VA has that we don't talk about is couples therapy. We did a lot of couples therapy, especially the bed center. They do that for us. One of the things that we have we face, especially as a couple, is that she didn't know how to deal with me. I didn't know how to deal with anybody, so the VA can offer her a lot of help when it comes to teaching her how to deal with me, so we can be better as a family Also helped me control myself with my kids because as a parent that has been facing PTSD, you have no patience and a lot of those kind of helped me.

Jose: 16:39

Va has a lot of good things there, really focused on the mental health. It's better to deal with somebody that can understand you as a veteran. We don't talk to people If you're not in the service. We don't really like to talk to you because it feels like you don't understand. But there's a lot of people there, especially the VA. They hire a lot of people that have been there or they have a family member that know what you went through. You never know. I've seen people that you never thought they are better than they are.

Scott: 17:12

Yeah, that's well, buddy, I don't know what to say. That's a great story, man. It's a beautiful story and it's a successful story, and because of your lovely wife yes, right, that support. I've seen things go the other way without that support. So, for the listeners, I'm looking at his wife saying God bless you, good job. She's my blessing, that's right.

Jose: 17:42

One of the things I noticed dealing with veterans I've been dealing with veterans in this job of 10 years is that they don't have a really strong support system. I was blessed I have a strong support system when I can do it her, my mother-in-law, my family, my sisters they'll call me and they try to help me the best that they can. But she's the only one that actually got more into it because she's here with me. I mean, you're homeless and she don't leave you, keep her.

Scott: 18:14

God bless that, buddy. I don't think you can put it any other way. No, that's the keeper, that's right, that's right. But that also goes the other way too, for female veterans, right. They're kind of in the shadows of all that. People don't realize they go through the same things that men go through with husbands and children.

Scott: 18:40

So I don't want anybody listening to think that we're leaving them out. They're a big part. They go through the same things we go through and you went through some of the stuff I went through. I went through some of the stuff you went through. You said you were a peer support. So I'm going to bring up my interview from last week with Henry from the Firewatch and that was one of the things he mentioned. He said they had peer support, like I could talk to somebody. He really emphasized that and so you say it this week.

Scott: 19:11

So for the listeners, that is a very, very important thing to be able to do for veterans. You walked in my shoes, I walked in my shoes. I walked in your shoes. I could tell my friends who weren't in the military but they can't relate and I use the analogy like I did in the last episode. I'm a recovering alcoholic, 32 years, and I can only talk to another alcoholic. They understand. Other veterans understand. So that's a great program. So do you have one standout story of a veteran that came to the VA and you took it from beginning to end?

Jose: 19:51

A couple of them, one of the ones that stand out. I have this veteran that served the Coast Guard and what happened to him? He wasn't really into the combat. He actually had like a car accident and while he was serving because he was serving now he qualified for VA benefits and all that, but when he got out he was lost, nothing to happen. He got a traumatic brain injury. We don't know how to like approach him because he was in combat he does qualify for VA and now he's lost. How we deal with him.

Jose: 20:27

I used to talk to his family. I talked to his family connected with the care that he needs. I did connecting with the doctor. We have a TBI Traumatic Brain Injury Clinic. He was referred to that and they accepted him in that program. They're also connecting with other services. For example, there's a chamber that you go in for oxygen. So he was connected with all that and all that happened because I was able to talk to the family, because he couldn't understand what I was saying. He he got so much trauma that he couldn't speak. So we spoke with the family. I connected with my team my team have other expertise, the clinical expertise and we were able to connect him with the care that he needs. Now he's going back to his hometown because of all the things that we have done.

Jose: 21:15

That was, like for me, special because you're talking about a 19 year old that served since he was 17. And now he have no motion on his body because he got this accident. What do you do after that? You're young. So we were able to connect him with all the care that he deserved because he was connected to us by his liaison and for me that was amazing. That's for the post-9-11 program. A lot of the other things that I did was in HOT BASH. I spent more time in HOT BASH than any other program Six years in. The other things that I did was in hotbash. I spent more time in hotbash than any other program Six years in there. Then I've been here for three Hotbash.

Jose: 21:54

Every day was amazing because you can see a veteran living in the woods out there asking for money in the corner. I'm a vet, I need a quarter or whatever and I used to get them in my van. Go to a food pantry, go take a shower VA have showers for them. Get me food. They have a clothing closet. The veteran got clothes. Guess what. I went back.

Jose: 22:19

Finding a house in Florida is like finding a job, so you have to go for the interview. I got him to get in a shower. He shaved, he cleaned himself. We went there. Guess what? He got the apartment. That was one of his best days of his life. He was for 15 years homeless, this guy. When he got the apartment he couldn't sleep inside the apartment. He's sleeping in the outside because that's where he felt comfortable. But he was getting mugged all the time. He was getting rubbed so he needed to be in a safe place and that was his wake-up call. And right now that veteran is sleeping inside his house. And those are little things that you don't see, but for them it's amazing. 15, 20 years outside, then you have your apartment, you can live there. Now you live in your balcony because you feel the balcony is safer than your room. And now, after many, many years of treatment, the veteran now is sleeping in his own bed. And that's amazing. That's amazing.

Scott: 23:21

And that was because of you.

Jose: 23:23

Yeah, we started somehow In the VA but you In the VA. Yeah, you, yeah, we started somehow in the va, but you, yeah, having that, uh, you know, person to go out there and shake their hand and say, yeah, you know we're gonna take care of you. Let them pay attention to them.

Scott: 23:37

Yeah, see them, listen to them and listen to them I always say that anybody that talks to me on the street I'll listen. I will talk to anybody and I've seen people ignore people like that, but I see you might be the only conversation they have in a week forever yeah, I mean, you might be the only one to talk to them.

Scott: 23:58

So, and see, that's what happens sometimes every out of everything bad comes something good. That's right. I firmly Again with you out of everything bad comes something good. Probably the best thing is sitting at the table with us right now, your wife. She's getting a lot of kudos today.

Jose: 24:17

She earned it. So the main thing again, one of the things we're talking about is a lot of the veterans that we see and recover is because they have a strong support system. Without a support system, you're probably going to go back to always, because you don't have that wall or that thing to lay down. I'm fortunate enough that I can lay on her and she can lay on me and we can support each other. But a lot of people don't have that and that is a big change in their life. The most successful story I ever saw in the VA was people with support systems Maybe their family, maybe their dog Sometimes it's just a dog, but they have that. A lot of them don't have the support systems. They gave up and that's why we're here. That's why we are doing things like this, Podcasts like this, Because we want to reach our boys out there and say you know we're here for you. You served your country. Now we're here to serve you.

Scott: 25:18

I was just thinking about this. This isn't a question and this isn't a trap question. This just dawned on me. You see a lot of hard stuff, man. I did, and you still do right In your job. You see some hard stuff.

Jose: 25:30

Nothing compared to Iraq.

Jose: 25:32

Exactly, and the community here is a little different, but again, it's the sad and the good and how we cope with life. And that was my hardest thing trying to cope with life, with my family, with my job, what, what to do with. And now what I do is I tell my story. I seen that telling my story have helped a lot of the guys because they found faith. You know they. That's one of the, the last things you. You lose what it is hope, yeah, so you lose hope. You lose within us suicide prevention, our family engagement. That's when we're trying to bring that hope back on people.

Scott: 26:12

And that's why this podcast isn't just and we talked about this before the podcast this isn't just like hey, tell us about your job, right, I want to know about you, because you are the one that makes the difference. The VA is the vehicle, it's the platform, it's your backup, it's your support, but it's you that does the work and it's you that makes the difference, and your story is a big factor in that.

Jose: 26:40

Yeah.

Scott: 26:40

And I think people need to hear more stories like this. You know, like we said like okay, if we were talking about your job, this podcast would have been over eight minutes ago yeah, you know what I mean it would have been nice. Hey, this is a great program, but the in the va took you under their wing. They took you in and you paid it back.

Jose: 26:59

You now you're paying it forward most of the things that we say in the va is that most people have their own story here. Most, most, most everybody is a peer themselves. You went to a situation and now you don't want other people to go to the same situation they were. And that's the core of the peer. We plant seeds on people. We tell them you know things are going to get better, and then from there you start talking to them and go slowly on their own pace and then you bring in teams and connect with teams that work for you. Maybe they're going to work for them. You never know until they try.

Scott: 27:37

The VA offers a lot.

Jose: 27:38

They have that.

Scott: 27:39

It's amazing how much they offer.

Jose: 27:41

You know the VA is actually a research center as well, so they do research for evidence-based trainings that we didn't know we can do and what happened? They occupied the community, used those to treat their pump patients, but who did it first? The VA did. These are the things like PTSD, evidence-based therapy that they did. I went to almost all of them. I'm telling you they work in a way that is like special, because you will never be able to tell your story unless you have a professional like that that can actually put it all together their evidence trainings that they do and the therapy that they do. It's been amazing.

Scott: 28:24

I've been helping me and a lot of people as well so, needless to say, after the last 29 minutes right, we know the va changed your life like it changed my life. So I always give credit to the va because they are the, they're the vehicle, right, yeah, they're the platform. So we know that it changed your life. What do do you say to veterans that and I was one of them to the veterans that are on the fence about the VA and whatever they think or their perception is, what do you say to them about the VA?

Jose: 29:03

It's hard. I remember back when I was in the military, when my sergeant did this job. He says he put a whiteboard and he put a dot in that white door and he told me what do you see in the whiteboard? A dot. And he asked me where's everything? All the whiteboard? You just focus on the dot. So what that told me was one situation would not make your whole story. So if you are there and you need VA services and probably you were denied before try it again A lot of things have changed.

Jose: 29:35

My first interaction with the VA, 2006, wasn't pleasant, but in 2010, when I went back, it was beautiful. You never know when you're going to need it. Give you a chance. Be vulnerable sometimes and if you don't want to be vulnerable with your family, come to the VA. Talk to somebody. There's always going to be somebody to listen to. You Might not be the first person that you talk to, but there's somebody in the VA that will be there to help you and listen to you. You never know. You know your life might change. Give you a chance.

Scott: 30:07

And that's coming from firsthand experience. Yes, Absolutely Well. Jose man, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. This was a great, great interview. I learned something. I try to learn something every interview with everybody I talk to this. I learned a lot more than I thought I was going to learn today, so thank you for that. Thank you to your lovely wife for coming with you and supporting you Right, Always Right. If somebody wants to get in touch with you or the VA or the program that you're with, the transitional program, how do they do it?

Jose: 30:41

In order to get in a program. First you might get referred by the liaisons. You're going through that process right now. But if you're already out in the military, out of the military and you're a civilian, you got to come to the enrollment. Or you just call me 561-859-1771. Best way is to come to the hospital to make sure that we can get you enrolled. But if you are there, I can come to you. You live in Palm Beach County. I can come to you. So you give me a call, I will try my best to help you. That's the two ways, my preferred way to come to the VA, because you might need more than me in the VA and it's centralized. You don't have to come to West Palm. You can go to any of the CBOT clinic and ask for to speak with your social worker.

Scott: 31:27

So they would just make an appointment with who at the VA social worker, the social worker, every person in the VA.

Jose: 31:32

As long as you have a doctor, you have an assigned social worker. That social worker would do all the things that I do.

Scott: 31:39

There, you go.

Jose: 31:40

I focus more on the community out there, but my end job will be connecting to you, to them. So again, every veteran, I have a social worker. Let them speak with the social worker. They can connect me with them if they need to or not.

Scott: 31:53

And, once again, this is Jose Lopez Rodriguez. He's a transitional patient advocate. That's who they want to ask for, right? Yes, transitional patient advocate. And then they fall into, hopefully, your hands or another qualified transitional patient advocate, I'm sure. So we built another bridge today. If you like this podcast, share it. Share it. Share it. Share it, whether it's on the podcast platform or the YouTube platform. If there's an option to follow or subscribe, well, hit that button and please listen all the way to the end. I just added a very informative public service announcement at the end of the podcast, so wait about 40 seconds past the outro and listen to the public service announcement. You won't regret it and, as I always say, you'll hear me again next Monday.