The VetsConnection Podcast

Ep. 27 - Preventing Veteran Suicide with Community Connection. Talking With Cecilia Baez From The West Palm Beach V.A.

• Scott McLean

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What if you could play a crucial role in saving a veteran's life? This episode brings you an enriching discussion with Cecilia Baez, the unstoppable advocate for veteran suicide prevention from the West Palm Beach VA Medical Center. With her deep-rooted connection to military culture, Cecilia shares the inner workings of a comprehensive program designed to thwart the silent epidemic of veteran suicide. Together, we explore her team's seamless integration with other VA services, their tireless commitment to veterans in distress, and how these efforts extend beyond the walls of the VA to reach those who may never step foot inside.

Our conversation takes a closer look at the VA's impactful community outreach, focusing on the power of training programs like SAVE. These initiatives empower community members to identify and engage with individuals displaying signs of suicidal thoughts. By partnering with educational institutions and first responders, the VA is not just raising awareness but also equipping allies in the fight against veteran suicide. Dive into the nuances of behavioral indicators such as isolation and substance abuse, and discover how awareness can lead to life-saving interventions.

In a world where professional help isn't always immediately available, learn how empathy, compassion, and genuine connection can bridge the gap. Cecilia shares poignant tales of partnerships with organizations like the Herd Foundation, emphasizing accessible resources like equine therapy that transform lives. Through personal stories, we illustrate that anyone can offer critical support by being attentive and open—a reminder that even a small gesture can hold the power to change a life. Tune in to explore how meaningful connections and timely guidance can make an indelible impact on those who have served.

Scott McLean:

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. My guest today is Cecilia Baez. Cecilia works at the West Palm Beach VA Medical Center and, well, I'm going to let her give you her title. She has a very long and cool title.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you, scott. It's a pleasure for me to be here. Okay, so, going along the name, the position, I am a community engagement and partnerships coordinator for the suicide prevention team at the West Palm Beach VA Medical Center. But we can actually minimize the title and say CEPC. That's what it's known for, cepc.

Scott McLean:

CEPC. That's a long way to go to say CEPC.

Cecilia Baez:

Yes.

Scott McLean:

This is why I wanted her to say the title. I would have screwed that up. So how long have you been with the VA? The West Palm Beach.

Cecilia Baez:

VA. I've been with the VA for about a year and a half. Actually, it's not a long time, only a year and a half but I have learned and grown so much like learning about the veterans and the veteran community.

Scott McLean:

And how did you get involved with the VA?

Cecilia Baez:

Well, I'm coming from a family. In my family many family members were in the military, so it always was appealing to me. And then I see the opportunity. I was talking to people. I was, kind of by myself, started learning about the military culture and all this. I I kind of actually, if I'm not mistaken, I completed a training on military culture and from there is like I, this is what I want to continue doing. I mean, I was passionate about it, so and and I am, you know my passion about I- do know that firsthand.

Scott McLean:

Yes, she's very inspirational. She was actually so. This is the Cecilia Baez that I always mentioned. That was one of the main reasons why I did this podcast, because I see the passion that she has for veteran suicide prevention and the work that she puts in, and I said, well, I have to help her. So, yes, so now I got Jonathan Oakley, who was the other inspiration.

Cecilia Baez:

The other person.

Scott McLean:

So now I have both of you on the interview, so that's great.

Cecilia Baez:

That's awesome. That's great Pleasure being here.

Scott McLean:

Tell us a little about the suicide prevention program at the West Palm Beach VA.

Cecilia Baez:

Okay. Well, this is great to have the opportunity to talk about this amazing program. We are five people, but we are four suicide prevention coordinators and one community engagement, which is me, community engagement partnership coordinator. The four suicide prevention coordinators are part of the patient care team, what we call the clinical team, and my role I am also part of the clinical team, but also I'm a community engagement Like. My role is a little bit different. It's more engaging the community, community partners, like we have done with you and other partners that we have engaged, and organizations that wants to support the VA. So, basically, we are five people and suicide prevention is part of it's integrated with all other VA services. It's not that it's in isolation as a suicide prevention program. Quite the opposite. Suicide prevention is part of the clinics, is part of the emergency room, is part of the PTSD and mental health clinics. It's not an isolated program and we all work well together addressing any distressing needs or any kind of needs that the veterans might have.

Scott McLean:

It's all-encompassing.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah, it's encompassing.

Scott McLean:

Every part of the VA. I go to the West Palm Beach VA, I go to the Delray Beach Clinic, I go to the Boca Raton Clinic and it's all-encompassing and that's a really good thing.

Cecilia Baez:

And I would like to add, the idea of having a community engagement as part of the suicide prevention team is exactly what allows us to provide a comprehensive care to veterans. It's not only the clinical needs but also the community needs, because we know the veterans are in the community and sometimes they don't come to the VA. So we need to make sure that, as a VA, we are actually reaching out to the veterans that are part of the community that decide not to come for any reason, and the best way is having a community engagement person invested on that almost a hundred percent of the time.

Scott McLean:

And that's how you and I met Exactly. We became the HERD Foundation.

Cecilia Baez:

Exactly, that's how we met.

Scott McLean:

And we became friends instantly. Ah, there you go.

Cecilia Baez:

That was an instant connection. That was great yeah.

Scott McLean:

How do you address suicide prevention and what are the biggest components of what you do on a daily basis and what are the biggest components of what you do on a daily basis?

Cecilia Baez:

Okay, so we have tasks assigned to us every single day, but no one day is the same as the other one. We change what we do on a daily basis. For example, we respond to calls that come to the Veteran Crisis Line, the famous BCL, and so to call to the BCL, they need veterans to call 988-PRESS-1, and that's going to get you to the BCL responder. So we, as part of the team, we respond to those calls. When they're not in our catchment area, we send them. For example, if we get some calls from Broward or Miami, we send them to the VA, the Miami VA. So we respond to those calls.

Cecilia Baez:

We try to address the needs of the veterans that led them to call to the crisis lines in first place. If we call them the first time and we don't get them, then we provide ongoing care on the next day and then on the next day. It's not that if we cannot reach them out, we just drop it and leave it alone. We continue calling and calling because we know that there is a veteran that is in distress or having any kind of crisis or having any kind of need. So we continue calling until we are able to speak to the veteran and address any needs. Sometimes we connect them with other VA services, Sometimes we connect them with the community and we help them find resources. But the idea is to kind of take care of the reason that led them to make the first call.

Scott McLean:

And I can actually speak on that. I had a friend of mine call me. I told you this story. Yes yes, and he had attempted suicide. He's a veteran and and also, you know, just from learning from you and learning from the fire watch, henry Angulo, uh, I knew kind of what to do and I had him call nine, eight, eight and the press one.

Scott McLean:

He was going to wait until the morning and I said you can't sleep on that, you have to call now and his wife was on the speakerphone and he called and, uh, and that night they said okay, okay, are you good right now? And they gave him all the attention he needed. But the very next morning they were like, come in and it was taken care of. So and he gave me all the feedback and told me that he got treated well and he they took care of him immediately, which was great.

Cecilia Baez:

It was a great thing, yeah, and you made a great point like it's not like waiting for the call for the next day. When veterans call 9-8-8, they can call anytime. It's a 24-7 crisis line and we this is a good point, scott, because we always say do not wait, always, and if you are with someone, share that with someone with family, neighbor. It doesn't matter, and we want people to hear this Always prompt the person to call 988. It doesn't matter, it's not important, it's just I want a resource. It really doesn't matter, as long as the call is made as soon as possible.

Scott McLean:

Interestingly enough, he was talking, his wife was saying 2-1-1. And at first I said no, no, no, no, no.

Cecilia Baez:

2-1-1 is a great it's a great resource, but it's not that resource that you need immediately.

Scott McLean:

So because of learning from you and Henry, again from the Firewatch, I quickly switched that to 9-8-8 and then plus one which, if I didn't do that training, I might have been like, okay, yeah, call 211. And you know, fortunately he didn't have to do that, but 988 plus one and it made a difference in his life, literally in his life. Yes, so does the suicide prevention team, which is you. When you, you said there's five of you.

Cecilia Baez:

Yes.

Scott McLean:

Do you do any kind of outreach, Like how do you get out to the community?

Cecilia Baez:

Excellent question, scott. Okay, so just to mention this as part of the VA guidelines, we need to kind of provide community events and sponsor community outreach, always in the community. It's part of what all the programs do, all the VA services do in the community Not only patient care but also community outreach. Now, the suicide prevention coordinators, they have to complete some number of outreach events and be part of the community. In my case it's a little different because, remember, I am a CEPC let's call it just like that CPC which is community engagement. That is the biggest difference.

Cecilia Baez:

I don't, I'm not in charge of putting up events in the community, but engaging partners and that are interested in working with the VA and supporting the VA efforts in preventing suicide nationally and locally. So what I do is engage in organizations that want to support the VA in different ways and, on the other hand, of course, as a VA person, we support the VA, supports what the organizations and agencies are doing in the community. We provide free resources. We provide free resources, we provide free training, for example, the VA safe training, suicide prevention 101, the gatekeeper training, different kind of trainings for free and any kind of resources and support. So we provide visibility and spotlight the agencies that are partnering with us, because we know they're making the effort and that way we can connect and work together for the benefit of preventing suicide in the community so, even though it's community engagement, it's still a form of outreach.

Scott McLean:

So that's how I so, being a veteran who was at herd foundation when I first met you, uh, that to me was, it was a form of outreach. You came to us and you talked to us and uh, and so a cepc is, I think, in my eyes it's a slash engagement slash outreach.

Cecilia Baez:

That's correct and that's related actually to the process of engaging community partners. We begin with outreach. That's a good point. We begin with outreach because without the outreach I wouldn't be able to connect to anyone exactly and and well, we connected.

Scott McLean:

I can't say it enough.

Cecilia Baez:

That's a great thing there you go, yeah, for example so how does the community engagement and partnership program work?

Cecilia Baez:

good question, okay, okay, so just to begin and that's a good point, because we were talking about outreach, which is the step number one. So I don't create the outreach event. We have an outreach service at the VA in charge of that. But what I need to do is sometimes I'm doing what we call in my program community engagement program, like a landscape analysis. So, based on the landscape analysis, I can kind of keep a different perspective of what would be the ideal partners, what agencies are working with veterans. But it doesn't have to be only working with veterans. It can be any agency, any organization, for-profit, non-profit, you name it, it really doesn't matter. So we do like an analysis of how, what communities and what partners are in the community working with the veterans, and then we reach out or we go to outreach events right From there. We connect with them and we ask them, but sometimes they are the ones that come to the VA. So many agencies are reaching out daily. I want to partner with you, I want to support, I want to know, I want to learn about suicide prevention, how can you help us, how we can help you. So actually I don't have to do a lot of landscape analysis, because it's happening organically. They're coming to us and they actually come with proposals. So it's like me sitting there like just waiting for that and connecting with them.

Cecilia Baez:

And from there the landscape analysis we go to what is called as simple as a needs assessment. We sit down with our partners and discuss what is working for them the communities, what is not working, if they are working, for example, if they are implementing a program with veterans. So we work with them around what's needed for them to be successful, what kind of support do they need from the VA, what kind of support we can give them, what is working and what is not working for them to implement or develop the program with veterans or with any population, but mostly veterans. So from there we create what we call an action plan. So the action plan is okay. So these are the needs, these are the barriers, these are the obstacles for your program and this is what the VA can help you with. If we work together, we're going to get to point A, to point B, to point C and start implementing and developing the action plan.

Cecilia Baez:

And that's when we get into the priority areas of my program, which is basically identifying the veterans in the community as the question campaign, which is basically asking the client are you a veteran? And so we take it from there. If they are veterans, we work with the agency to let them know how they can connect veterans with the community. The other priority area is connections create connections and build like a safety net around the veterans so we increase protective factors and decrease risk factors that might lead to suicide. And the last one, the last priority area, which is to me one of the most important ones, is work on lethal means safety. Lethal means is like anything that the veterans can, or any person can, use to harm themselves. That's what we call a lethal means. So we provide free trainings to address lethal means and so we provide free resources like gun locks and different booklets for suicide prevention, and that's part of the community engagement program.

Scott McLean:

So you mentioned that organizations come to the VA. Have you noticed an increase in organizations in the last I don't know, say two years, three years than before, or has it always been consistent?

Cecilia Baez:

I cannot speak more than two years back, but what I can tell you and I like that question, scott, because what I noticed is for the past, I might say eight months the number of agencies and organizations reaching out has doubled.

Cecilia Baez:

There, you go Like I can even say like one of my colleagues retired from the VA already, and he was taking part of the northern counties like Port St Lucie, martin County, India River, okeechobee, and I was in charge of West Palm Beach, palm Beach County and the Glades. Well, it happened that as soon as he left, like a couple months after, I wasn't going to take care of that immediately because I was busy in my catchment area and it was like a number of organizations maybe six or eight organizations reaching out that they want to connect with the VA, and so we're talking about first responders, police departments, food pantries. I never see that before.

Cecilia Baez:

It's the same as Palm Beach County. So I can tell that the flux of organizations that are reaching now has doubled on the last six to eight months, I might say.

Scott McLean:

And that means the word's getting out, which is a good thing.

Cecilia Baez:

That means it's working, whatever the VA is doing, I might say, and that means the word's getting out, which is a good thing.

Scott McLean:

That means it's working, whatever the VA is doing.

Cecilia Baez:

I know it's a big machine and we always say that, but it's working If people are reaching out to you and you're getting more people coming in that's a beautiful thing, and the other part of this beauty thing that we're doing with this program is that we know, like I said before, we know veterans don't always come to the VA. For different reasons, they get their services in other places. They go to the community. The VA also pays for their community care.

Cecilia Baez:

But we know that when veterans don't come to the VA before and I'm talking about many years ago like okay, we have outreach, been always there, but there was a, there was any consistent way of reaching now within the community, and so what we're doing now is, instead of me being in the building 24 7, it's like I'm going out into the community. I'm gonna find not only me, like we are like a hundred and something community engagement coordinator. So what we're doing is getting out into the community, blend with the community, create a fusion and say, okay, so we're here and we know all of you are working with veterans and I know like maybe you have a program that is not for veterans, but I'm sure you have veterans within your clients right Everywhere.

Cecilia Baez:

Everywhere, everywhere, and so we are going out, we are finding those veterans and we are connecting with the agencies to make sure the agencies have the capability and resources to support the veterans in the community, and that's when the VA comes in place. Let me help you, let's work together and let me have access to your veterans and connect them with the VA. And yes, you're right, it's working, because we are getting more and more questions about how can we partner with you.

Scott McLean:

And that's a personal thing to me, because I say, you know, I got out of the Air Force in 1997 and I floated around out in that ether for 20 years not knowing anything. I was not, I didn't know there was any outreach, I didn't know anything. And so, uh, today If I was getting out, I'm sure it's a 180.

Scott McLean:

It's a whole different world out there for the veterans today. So that's again a beautiful thing and unfortunately I hung out there. But everything happens for a reason, and this is what brought me to doing everything I do today.

Cecilia Baez:

That's excellent. That's a great outcome.

Scott McLean:

So let's talk about SAVE training S-A-V-E what's that an acronym for?

Cecilia Baez:

Signs of Suicidal Thinking and how we, like in the community people, should recognize those signs to be able to act on time. When we identify any signs, the A stands for Ask the most important question of all. What do you think, scott, is the most important question to us have you?

Scott McLean:

are you going to hurt yourself?

Cecilia Baez:

excellent. Yeah, are you going to hurt yourself? Are you planning on killing yourself? I know it sounds a little tough because we don't like to use the word killing, but it's okay to do it, it's okay. So the most important question of all is are you thinking about killing yourself?

Scott McLean:

Yeah.

Cecilia Baez:

Openly and without any fear. Now let's go to the V. The V stands for validate the veteran's experience, be open, be sensitive.

Scott McLean:

Listen.

Cecilia Baez:

Listen, don't pass any judgment. And the last one go to the e encourage treatment and expedite getting help. So once we identify the signs and the risk factors, we need to do something. The worst thing we can do is do nothing or keep it as a secret. So we need to start asking questions, listening and validating those feelings and provide support and that training is offered through the va.

Scott McLean:

Do they have a?

Cecilia Baez:

yeah, yeah, we offer the va safe training to our partner agencies. As a matter of fact, I was coming from from a college right now in university that we partnered with them and they asked us to provide a training for faculty and students. It was a great moment, a great space and and it's interesting and it's beautiful to have the opportunity to to talk to young people about suicide in an open and safe environment, because none of them like some of them is like we never, like we heard about suicide and we didn't pay attention. And it could be among us, like we see it every day. So it was a very nice conversation. So, yes, we provide this free training to our partner agencies, to first responders, police departments, you name it. Different, different places.

Scott McLean:

These are always good interviews, but there's some things that get you sometimes have to talk about certain things. This question what are signs of suicidal thinking?

Cecilia Baez:

Okay. So the way I present the signs is like in a normal conversation. You say like that's a sign of, that's something that is, it makes me think that something is going on. Those are the signs, because people get confused between red flags and risk factors and signs. So let's put it like that that is something that is calling my attention, that makes you think, hmm, that's a sign of. So we were talking about suicide. We have, like when we talk to the person and we notice that he's isolating from others, he's hopeless like doesn't have any hope and purpose in their lives. They are with anxiety, agitation, insomnia, mood swings or altogether they feel that they don't have any purpose or any kind of reason strong reason to keep going. And also when they are engaging in risky activities sometimes they might be drinking, but sometimes they might start drinking a lot, then mixing with opioids and all kinds of things, increasing alcohol and drug use and isolating from family and friends those are signs that are indicating like there is something going on with the person.

Scott McLean:

What are some risk factors?

Cecilia Baez:

Risk factors. So I would like to define risk factors as characteristics, right, characteristics that increase the likelihood of developing suicidal behavior. So we're going to characteristics, for example, substance use right, access to lethal means. When we're talking about veterans and even first responders, they have access to lethal means. They have access to firearms means they have access to firearms and that's a risk factor. They put them at risk when they're in the middle of a suicidal crisis or mental health crisis.

Cecilia Baez:

When veterans are homeless, when they have a loss, lack of employment, lack of significant relationship with others, sometimes not having a stable family relationship with others, sometimes not having a stable family or be part of a group of friends or any groups in the community, or sometimes, if the veteran or the person attempted suicide before, chances are that might try again, because the thought process is like kind of repeating what I did before, but this time I'm going to be successful at doing it. I'm going to be, and that's not the. Actually that's the risk factor. We should get into that and be able to provide the support on time rather than allowing those risk factors to keep growing.

Scott McLean:

So the somewhat opposite of risk factors would be protective factors, right? Yes, give us some of those protective factors.

Cecilia Baez:

That's a good question. Before that, I would like to say the idea to prevent suicide. The goal is to decrease risk factors and boost their protective factors, because when I might be at risk of so many things, I might be at risk, but if there are any protective factors around, that's going to save a life. So getting into those access, for example, access to mental health care services. Sense of connectedness that they don't feel isolated from community and family so when they are connecting whether it's an agency in the community, a neighbor, a friend, a family member the sense of spirituality, having faith, believing in something that we can promote, having a mission and purpose in life. Having employment, of course, that's a big one. Housing opportunities if we are talking about homelessness, housing opportunities is one of the biggest protective factors.

Scott McLean:

And, of course, social and emotional stability and well-being. And the VA is pretty good at somewhat, and a lot of these nonprofits that work with veterans are good at promoting these protective factors. You know, as far as finding a veteran a home, and it's always up to the veteran or the person. I know we're in the veteran space and this is a veteran centric podcast, but this covers everybody. So if you're out there listening and maybe you just like the podcast and you're interested in the nonprofits, this isn't just for veterans. This is what we're talking about, is for everybody. Really. There's no differentiating when it comes to that, and I know that these organizations that are out there are out there trying to really promote these protective factors. Yes, and that's important. So that's where the partnerships come in. Yes, and that's important. So that's where the partnerships come in Exactly.

Cecilia Baez:

And the other thing about this, now that you mentioned Scott, is that that's one of the priority areas in my program Promote connectedness and care transitions.

Cecilia Baez:

That means that the agency any agency you name it is working with a veteran and they're done with their services. Let's say that it's equine therapy or yoga or anything like a rehab, instead of finishing there and telling the veteran, hey, you can come back anytime, we're here for you, but we're done. It's like, okay, you say that you can come back anytime, the doors are open for you, um, anytime you want. But let me connect you with this other agency that has yoga classes, so let me send you to this group of people that they're going in outdoors activities or, let's say, like golf course for veterans, or let me connect you with this other one that do xyz, and so it's like that's what we, the va, call it a care transitions. So it's expanding the safety net and protective factors for the veterans so they can actually safely move from one level of care to another one, instead of just being discharged from a program and say come back whenever you want, so we can always do more.

Scott McLean:

And that's the idea with this program that the va is doing and, and as far as my, my part in the herd foundation, we've done that. We've referred veterans, okay, you know, and maybe equine therapy isn't or services isn't for everybody, okay, well, here we offer them numerous different uh, non-profits to to go to, and I know from doing this podcast that I've had people reach out and say, hey, do you I got this veteran? Do you know? You know, maybe they're interested in doing this or doing that, and so, because I'm touching a lot of resources doing this, so, yeah, it's all about it's it's helping them out, it's paying it forward, it's taking care of them, it's it's understanding and and it all basically comes from the the relationship between the va and these organizations that are out there. So it goes back to what we talked about a little while ago, which is partnerships, exactly.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah, it is. That is something that I mean, as, as I hear you talking, it comes to me that so many times, when we are partnering with the organizations in the community, they tell us, like it's good that you're letting us know what kind of services, because we have a full array of services. We have so many services and not everybody knows. We have a book of services that we provide for free to our partners. So many agencies tell us like, okay, the veterans don't want to use those services, they want to leave that for others that are in need, so why I should take those services away from others? No, no, no, no, no.

Cecilia Baez:

That's a myth, that's a misconception. The services are for all the veterans. They're free, they are paid for and that's what the VA is doing connecting and bringing veterans, connecting them with services because they have the right. It's a right that you get as a veteran. So it's not because you are not coming to the VA, it's that you're saving that for another veteran. No, you still have the right to come and get the services that you deserve, that you actually and they are available.

Cecilia Baez:

Trust me on that.

Scott McLean:

What do you do when talking with a veteran who's at risk for suicide?

Cecilia Baez:

Excellent question, okay. So the first thing I would say is remain calm. Stay calm, don't be afraid of having the conversation, because when we're talking with somebody that is at risk for suicide or expressing suicidal thinking, people get scared. It's like, oh my goodness, if I say anything, that person is going to be prompt to do X, y, c. No, remain calm, don't be afraid. Have an open and honest conversation and be clear and talk openly about suicide. Be willing to listen and I would suggest, be more willing to listen than talk. Let the veteran do all the talking. Let them vent, talk about their feelings, emotions, thoughts, negative thoughts, emotions, thoughts, negative thoughts, anything that is in their mind. Let them talk and reassure the veteran that help is available. But we need to be realistic. We can tell like I don't have all the answers, but I got you, I'm here with you, we're going to go on this together. I'm not going to give you a lot.

Scott McLean:

That's big. Yeah, I'm with you, there you go, and that's what I've said to my I'm with you buddy, we're here exactly because when you say I'm with you, it's like you're not alone.

Cecilia Baez:

But if you say you're not alone, that sounds like a cliche. Everybody's telling me no, I'm with you you're right.

Scott McLean:

I'm laughing because you're right, that is a big difference.

Cecilia Baez:

No, you're not alone, I'm here with you, I'm listening, laughing because you're right, that is a big difference. No, you're not alone, oh really right. But yeah, I'm here with you, I'm listening and we're gonna go through this together. So that gives a sense of belongings.

Scott McLean:

And you know, empathy, listening ears, so we I just want to touch on the first thing you said and, and this is you know, I, I took the training, I took the Firewatch training, I took your training and you still and this is for the listeners you're never ready for it.

Cecilia Baez:

You're really never ready Like.

Scott McLean:

I had a call at 1030 on a Wednesday night through Facebook. Like the phone call came through and fortunately Facebook it doesn't stop ringing Right, and so I thank God for that. You know, facebook is a blessing and a curse.

Cecilia Baez:

Yes, I agree.

Scott McLean:

And this guy just blurted out that he just tried to kill himself. And so, realistically, I was tripping, like my head was spinning, like that is a big what the moment. Yes, Like so you know, it's easy for us once you get trained and you think, okay, I'm ready to go. But the key to it is you really, like you said, have to just come down, just bring yourself down and start kind of centering and getting just your footing, because it's it punches you right in the face.

Scott McLean:

And and you have to just get grounded. Stay grounded is a very like we do at herd foundation with the horses. Stay grounded and things will calm down, because your head will spin. There is no doubt about that.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

I don't know anybody, and I've had a few people talk to me about their situations and they said the same thing. So ground yourself once you get through that initial message. Yes, and then exactly, talk to them and listen to them and don't yeah just talk and listen.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah, and that's a good point. We're never ready, it doesn't matter the situation. That's a good point. We're never ready, it doesn't matter the situation, and that's one of the reasons why in our team at the West Palm Beach, va, we have tasks assigned every day. We know what we need to do each of us, but there is not a single like. Not every day is the same. It cannot be, because we are facing so many different things crisis and risk assessments, and then better us on the phone and it's never racking. I mean, it's not easy, it's not easy Right.

Cecilia Baez:

So you say something that I also want to tell you last, but I like that we need to be, we need to ground ourselves, we need to, and we can also help the veteran to be grounded, like, okay, so we need to give them the tools, yeah, but it's like, okay, what do you see now? What, like, what are you doing? Where are you located right now? What do you see in the room? Do you smell? Anything? Like okay, use this, their senses to be grounded, and that kind of helping and breathe, just breathe and just breathe.

Cecilia Baez:

I'm here with you Because they're very tense, they're always very intense.

Scott McLean:

Yes, you know whether they're about to do it or they tried and it didn't work. They are on another level of intensity and it doesn't ever help when two people are intense in the same conversation. No, I saw that. And get them to ground with you you know, and it, it worked for me, and it was. It was extremely hard at first. For the first 30 seconds it was extremely hard like I didn't uh what?

Cecilia Baez:

you don't know.

Scott McLean:

You don't know what to do it's not like there's an appointment okay I have an appointment at 2 30.

Cecilia Baez:

You know it's not clear cut yeah so, uh, we left off at encourage treatment and expedite care, right, that's one of the things that you want to do that's one of the things when, when we know, when we have identified that a veteran is at risk for suicide and we see some signs, we need to let them know like, hey, you can come to the VA If you are having a suicidal acute crisis, which is like an emotional breakdown, it's like overwhelmed with emotions and they're having some kind of suicidal thinking, they can also go. They can come to the VA 24-7. The VA is not going to send them back home, of course not. They're going to do an assessment and probably take care of that in that moment. But they can also, if it's a suicide crisis, they can go to any non-VA hospital, any community hospital, and that's what we call the compact act.

Cecilia Baez:

I'm not going to get into that, but we want veterans to know that the Compact Act was made for them. When they're having suicidal ideation, they can go to anyone in the community and then the VA is going to take it from there, like paying all the bills 30 days inpatient, 90 days outpatient and so we want community partners to know that they can send them to the VA. That is always helpful. They can also call the Veteran Crisis Line 988-PRESS-1. And there are so many options, but we want not just to keep it as a secret, but just to actually send them to us, right, yeah? And also, if you are talking to this person in person, show like positive body language, like be empathetic and show them support. You know like when we're talking about non-verbal behavior, so be open a hug is huge can be better than a thousand words.

Scott McLean:

Absolutely.

Cecilia Baez:

A hug. I like that, don't sleep on a hug.

Scott McLean:

A hug means a lot.

Cecilia Baez:

A lot.

Scott McLean:

Yes, it's a simple thing that we do all the time. But in that situation a hug could make a million times, like you said, more than a million words. It's better, hugs are better, yeah.

Cecilia Baez:

And also I think I said that at the beginning limit the number of questions you're asking. Let them talk. Don't ask so many questions because at some point it might become judgmental. So you're better off like saying the biggest question Are you thinking about killing yourself or harming yourself? And then let them talk. And you need to use supportive comments along the way 's like hey, I'm with you, yes, I'm listening, keep going. Yeah, I'm here, and what happened here and how do you come to this point? And so on.

Scott McLean:

yeah, so the other person knows that we're listening and we're following the conversation and you can say you can call me anytime, let them know and and it's not like you know you're, you're obliging yourself to it. But I think most people would say that once you brought me into this, well, now I'm in it with you there you go, you know so call me any any time, and when you see their call you make sure to answer it.

Scott McLean:

You know, and in my situation with the first one that happened, it was that happened unfortunately twice within two months and you got both my phone calls I had the vent to somebody.

Cecilia Baez:

It's not easy.

Scott McLean:

But I actually re-engaged the friendship with this guy, you know who we hadn't talked in decades, literally decades. He saw me on Facebook and he saw what we're doing with the VA and the whole thing, and so that's why he said you're the only one I could call, You're the only one I thought to call. So now we talk all the time.

Cecilia Baez:

That is amazing.

Scott McLean:

Everything's back. You know he's back to normal. Everything's good, he's back. You know he's back to normal. Everything's good. He's getting his help and he's taking his. You know whatever he needs to do. But we talk all the time, we text all the time.

Cecilia Baez:

And how do you feel about it?

Scott McLean:

It's amazing.

Cecilia Baez:

You save a life, you can say that it was whatever you're doing. You saved a life already and I said that to him I said well, now you're stuck with me, buddy.

Scott McLean:

Now you're stuck with me. Now we're going to be in touch all the time and he started laughing Awesome.

Cecilia Baez:

That's so beautiful. So it's things like that that they want to hear that encouragement.

Scott McLean:

Like I'm your friend, I'm not somebody who's I'm your friend, and that means something to people in those situations.

Cecilia Baez:

Because you're giving meaning. Yeah, in those situations Because you're giving meaning yeah. So it's not about asking the question what is important in your life? No, you guide the answer for them to feel embraced.

Scott McLean:

Yeah.

Cecilia Baez:

And have a meaning. It's like okay, you are stuck with me, oh, you are creating meaning right in there. That's the beauty.

Scott McLean:

And I'm not. I hope I'm not coming across. And I have to say this I hope I'm not coming across like I'm exploiting the situation that I had with a friend of mine. These are only my experiences and this topic is important to me, and it became even more important after the two situations that I went through yes.

Scott McLean:

And I'm just expressing what I went through and how I handled it. Everybody else is everybody's different and different. People handle things different ways and that's why I'm talking about this, because it worked for me and it was my lived experience that I went through. So I just don't want people to like I guess it's just the personal thing. I don't want people to think I guess it's just the personal thing. I don't want people to think, oh, he's exploiting that whole situation. No, it happened and I learned an immense amount from it.

Cecilia Baez:

And you learned from it.

Cecilia Baez:

I learned a lot from it and you know, I mean you didn't know, you don't know this, but I'm just going to disclose this now. I put you as an example during some of my BASL trainings, and the reason is because there is one part of the training is asking about myths, if it's real or not, if it's like we think it's true or false, and so it's like to help a person that is with any kind of suicidal thinking or suicidal behavior, you need to be a professional, you need to be a therapist or a counselor. Is it a myth or is it false?

Scott McLean:

no, it's not, it's a myth. It's a myth, yeah, anybody yeah, anybody can provide support.

Cecilia Baez:

You don't need training. I mean, it doesn't hurt to have the training. Of course it is important, it's necessary, but if it happens to you, like it happened to you at night, like in the middle of so, you don't need special training, you just need to be you and have common sense and compassion and compassion, empathy, listening ears, like be willing and wanted to do it because it's a big responsibility.

Cecilia Baez:

so and that's another thing you need to take it seriously At some point. That's another bullet point. You need to take that seriously, rather than keep it a secret or pass it to the next person. It's like, okay, why don't you talk to your therapist tomorrow? No, no, no, no, no, no.

Scott McLean:

Let's have the conversation now, you and I right now, yeah, and make sure that they talk to that. Like, follow up with them and tell them hey, I'm going to talk and I did. I called him the next day. I said did you talk to somebody? And everything worked out. Everything worked out.

Cecilia Baez:

That is very important because we can do, like, one part of the legwork is talking to them right at the moment when it's happening talking to them right at that moment when it's happening. But as important is that as follow-up the next day or make sure that the person is doing something with a professional like, are you calling your therapist? Did you get in touch with your social worker? Did you talk to your PCP provider? So we always need to follow up after we have had the conversation with the veteran to make sure that things are in place and that the veteran is doing what they're supposed to be doing after the initial conversation. That's super important.

Scott McLean:

Do you have any resources you could share with the listeners?

Cecilia Baez:

Well, right now, the VA. If you go to the VA website you're going to find a lot of resources. But if you visit us in Facebook, we have like Facebook at WPBVAHCS. So it is West Palm Beach VA Healthcare System. So I'm going to repeat it like in Facebook at WPBVAHCS.

Scott McLean:

All right WPBVAHCSA-H-C-S.

Cecilia Baez:

All right. W-p-b-v-a-h-c-s.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, this is a long one, not as long as One man, one Mic Foundation, that's a long one. There you go. I like that one. I got my cheap plug. I always get my cheap plug. Oh, I love it.

Cecilia Baez:

You got it.

Scott McLean:

I can do that, since I discovered or created both of these things. Okay, how about provide contact information If someone wants to get in touch? Do you need that? Through the VA?

Cecilia Baez:

through you, I mean they can actually call the VA. My name is Cecilia Valles and I work for the Suicide Prevention Team. It's better if they call.

Scott McLean:

Yeah.

Cecilia Baez:

Okay, so instead of giving my number they can call the 561-422-8262. That's the general number for the West Palm Beach VA and then they can take it from there. If they want suicide prevention, they will put it with someone at the suicide prevention or mental health clinic or PTSD. So that's the main number for our West Palm Beach VA. I'm going to repeat it again 561-422-8262.

Scott McLean:

There you go. Well, I think that covers it.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah, we covered a lot of information today. Yeah, Very good conversation, Scott.

Scott McLean:

And the listeners will have no idea that we had technical difficulties right toward the end. Right toward the end, we had technical difficulties.

Cecilia Baez:

It always happens, there is always something. That's part of life. It always happens.

Scott McLean:

It always happens. Well, cecilia, I've been wanting to get you on for a while now, since the beginning, and we keep missing each other and missing each other, but I finally got you on and, uh, yes, and so I do this thing now. Where, uh, I want to do this? Uh, during the recording of this podcast, I have these challenge coins that I had made it's the vets connection podcast challenge coin and I want to.

Scott McLean:

You are the first one in giving it to during the podcast, right at the end of the podcast, so I want to give you this. It's a beautiful challenge coin. It's like I don't know, two and a half inches. It's got the vets connection logo thank you so much you deserve it so beautiful I'm honored.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you.

Scott McLean:

You deserve it the microphone with the flag behind it. So beautiful.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you, scott, you're welcome I really appreciate this.

Scott McLean:

Wow, Well thank you for everything you do. Like I said, you inspired me, so I will always be thankful for you for that, and I think 2025, we're going to do a lot more good things yeah, of course, and we're're going to do a lot more good things.

Cecilia Baez:

Yeah, of course, I also want to thank you and thank Vets Connect and One man, one Mic Foundation, because you have been amazing, very supportive with the VA I'm not going to say with me, with the VA. You have been always there, have opened doors, possibilities, helped us grow in our efforts for suicide prevention. As a matter of fact, what we're doing is huge. So thank you so much, scott, for being such an amazing partner for the VA.

Scott McLean:

It's my pleasure. I recently came up with this. I said at 20, I found my calling and that was working with dogs and I had a 32-year career with dogs. At 60, I found my purpose and my purpose is to help other veterans and the VA is a big part of that. Thank, you, they took care of me so I can pay it forward and help them out so inspiring.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you a hundred times my pleasure.

Scott McLean:

Well, as usual, we built another bridge today. This was a really good one. This will not be an edited podcast. I have to stitch some things together because of technical difficulties, but because of the content and the importance of it, I think that even with all its little glitches in it, it's a good podcast. Very few have been closer to the heart than this one has been this episode, because, well, you heard my experiences so it's a great, great cause. So, again, nothing will be edited. You're getting it as it came out of the machine and if you would listen all the way to the end there's a good public service announcement at the end would listen all the way to the end. There's a good public service announcement at the end. It's very informative for veterans, family members of veterans and for just pretty much anybody that might be listening. So it's only like 30 seconds, so just listen to that at the end. And oh yeah, one man, one Mic Foundation. Go to the website www. Do I have to do people even have to say www anymore? I?

Cecilia Baez:

don't know, but I think so.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, it's kind of like yeah, one man, one mic foundationorg it's like. It's like do I have to say, uh, one man, one mic foundation at gmailcom? Like do I have to say that or do? I just say Gmail.

Cecilia Baez:

No, no, no. Go ahead and say it the way it is.

Scott McLean:

For clarity. For clarity, learn something else. Well, cecilia, thank you very much for what you do, but, even more important, thank you for your friendship. We have a great friendship, we have a great connection and I appreciate that. And well, everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode and you will hear me next week with a new episode. Right toward the end we had technical difficulties.

Cecilia Baez:

It always happens, there is always something. That's part of life Always happens, it always happens.

Scott McLean:

Well, Cecilia, I've been wanting to get you on for a while now, since the beginning. We keep missing each other and missing each other.

Cecilia Baez:

but wanting to get you on for a while now, since the beginning, and we keep missing each other and missing each other, but I finally got you on.

Scott McLean:

Thank you, scott. Yes, and so I do this thing now where and I have to backtrack on some other you know past guests, but I want to do this during the recording of this podcast I have these challenge coins that I had made it's the.

Scott McLean:

Vets Connection podcast challenge coin and I want to. You are the first one in giving it to during the podcast, right at the end of the podcast, so I want to give you this. It's a beautiful challenge coin. It's like I don't know two and a half inches. It's got the Vets Connection logo.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you so much.

Scott McLean:

You deserve it.

Cecilia Baez:

This is so beautiful.

Scott McLean:

I'm honored.

Cecilia Baez:

Thank you.

Scott McLean:

You deserve it the microphone with the flag behind it.

Cecilia Baez:

So beautiful. Thank you, scott, you're welcome I really appreciate this.

Scott McLean:

Wow, Well thank you for everything you do.

Cecilia Baez:

You like I said, you inspired me, so I will always be thankful for you for that, and I think 2025 we're going to do a lot more good things and we're just gonna I also want to thank you and thank vets connect and one man, one make foundation, because you have been amazing, very supportive with the va I'm not going to say with me, with the va. You have been always there, have opened doors, possibilities, help us grow in our efforts or suicide prevention. As a matter of fact, what we're doing is huge. So thank you so much, scott, for being such an amazing partner for the VA.

Scott McLean:

It's my pleasure. I recently came up with this. I said at 20, I found my calling and that was working with dogs and I had a 32-year career with dogs. At 60, I found my purpose and my purpose is to help other veterans and the VA is a big part of that. Thank, you, they took care of me so I can pay it forward and help them out.

Cecilia Baez:

So inspiring. Thank you a hundred times, it's my pleasure.

Scott McLean:

Well, as usual, we built another bridge today. This was a really good one. This will not be an edited podcast. I have to stitch some things together because of technical difficulties, but because of the content and the importance of it, I think that, uh, even with all it's, uh, it's a little, uh, glitches in it, it's, it's, it's a good podcast. I very few have been closer to the heart than this one has been this episode, because, well, you heard my experiences. So, uh, it's, it's a great, great cause. So, again, nothing will be edited. You're getting it as it came out of the machine. And if you would listen all the way to the end, there's a good public service announcement at the end. It's very informative for veterans, family members of veterans and for just pretty much anybody that might be listening. So it's only like 30 seconds, so just listen to that at the end. And oh, yeah, One man, One Mic Foundation. Go to the website www. Do I have to do people even have to say www anymore? I?

Cecilia Baez:

don't know, but I think so.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, it's kind of like yeah, onemanonemicfoundationorg, it's like. It's like do I have to say onemanonemicfoundation at gmailcom? Like do I have to say one man, one, mike foundation at gmailcom, like do I have to say that?

Cecilia Baez:

Or do I just say Gmail, no, no, no.

Scott McLean:

Go ahead and say it the way it is, for clarity. Yeah, learn something else. Well, cecilia, thank you very much for what you do, but, even more important, thank you for your friendship. We have a great friendship, we have a great connection and I appreciate that. And, uh, well, everybody, uh, yep, I hope you enjoyed this episode and you will hear me next week with the new episode.

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Scott McLean

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