The VetsConnection Podcast

Ep.60 - From Vietnam Vet to The No White Flags Project: How Art Brownstein Builds Dignity With Adaptive Bathrooms

• Scott McLean • Episode 60

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A veteran’s spark in a public restroom becomes a nationwide mission to restore independence in the most private room of the home. We unpack the tech, the funding grind, the caregiver load, and the culture shift that lets amputees lead with pride—not surrender.

• mission of One Man One Mic and Art’s background
• how a hand dryer led to the Tornado Body Dryer focus
• expanding from veterans to amputees, ALS, Parkinson’s
• partners and discounts from Toto, Delta, Mr. Electric
• tub‑to‑shower conversions and 220‑volt challenges
• why bidets and voice controls restore dignity
• funding realities, waitlists, and red tape with VA
• Jessica Cox’s impact and growing amputee community
• sepsis, prosthetics pain, and caregiver strain
• how to contact No White Flags and become an ambassador

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Scott:

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. Coming to you from the One Man One Mike Foundation studio, located in Boca Raton, Florida, the One Man One Mic Foundation. Well, we help veterans, we teach them how to podcast. We also teach them the healing power of storytelling. Because either way, the veteran has a voice, and we want to amplify that voice. One veteran, one mic at a time. So, with all that said, my guest today is Art Brownstein. Art is the CEO and founder of the No White Flags Project, located here in Boca Ratona.

Art:

Right. We are in Boca, but we cover the whole United States.

Scott:

That's good to know. That's good to know. So where are you from originally, Art?

Art:

Originally New York, Upper Manhattan, Inwood. Okay. It's known for having more bars than any other location in New York. Excuse me, I should have drank something here. Clear my throat a little bit. Yeah. Went to the largest high school in the country at the time. Okay. George Washington High School. Don't know if it's still the largest. And then got married and moved to Houston, Texas. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Scott:

Houston, Texas, huh?

Art:

And lived there for 21 years. Aaron Powell, you're a veteran? I am a veteran. Went in in 64, served in Vietnam, did a tour in Vietnam. And then I I probably shouldn't say this because I'm sure I'll get into trouble. Protested the war after I came home. So uh Yeah, it was uh it was quite the experience.

Scott:

All right. All right. So what did you do after? How was your transition? How did that go?

Art:

Is I I worked for a uh a container company, actually. W. Braun, I still remember it, and they made bottles for Revlon. They made their containers. Lasted about two years until I met my wife on a blind date. Uh we uh she went to the University of Houston. She was there when Elvin Hayes was the big star down there. And uh we got married in uh December 69. I moved down there, spent 21 years there, got divorced, like, you know, 80% of the people. Uh and and came here after my uh father passed away in '91. Uh wanted to make sure my mother was okay. So came here to make sure and have been here for 34 years. What's your veteran experience after Vietnam? It it was uh it was interesting. I went to a few groups to make sure I was okay. Uh I seemed to be okay. Uh but dealing with the hospitals, going to the hospitals and seeing the other vets and seeing what they go through and what you know. Uh and I guess the biggest thing is when I ran into uh I I dated a nurse who had a spina bifida child. And I got to see the problems that that people are having. What year was this? Uh it would have been ninety-two. And uh again, spent six years with her uh taking care of the the child and then uh remarried after that. And I became a manager. I used to manage rock bands down in Houston. So uh and and I probably managed one of the better bands there because they were regional, they were as big as you could get. Uh but when I came up here I found an artist who had, again, we talk about he had what was called spinal muscular atrophy. Uh the only part of his body he could move was the tip of the left finger. But he was an artist because he could do work on the computer. And I am telling you, if you look at his artwork, there is no way in the world you would think he's handicapped at all. His artwork is incredible. I was also working with a congressman at the time uh on an organ donor project, and I knew he knew Barack Obama. So I asked him to ask Barack Obama. I I told him the story of the artist, and I said, ask the president if A.J. could do a portrait of him. And I wanted to make sure AJ wasn't gonna do a portrait and then it was gonna go into a closet somewhere. And I got a call the very next day, and he said, not only does he want a pick a portrait of him, he wants a portrait of the whole family. And as I understand it, A.J. did did the portrait, took about six months. And the last uh, for those of you in Boca, the last uh debate that Obama had with uh Mitt Romney in 2012 was at Lynn University in Boca. And the very next day, Obama did a rally at the Delray Beach Tennis Center, and we gave him the portrait, and as I understand it, it hung in the White House for four years, and I believe it hangs in his home right now in D.C. So that was pretty cool.

Scott:

Yeah. What's the artist's name in case people want to look him up?

Art:

A.J. Brockman. It's called Single Handed Studios. Uh he does not paint anymore, I don't believe. I believe he owns a nightclub up in Lake Park. Uh a really, a really hot place, I assume. Uh and uh he's absolutely terrific. And uh again, I I got to see his mother take care of him and see the problems you have with handicapped individuals. And I guess I I know you didn't ask, I but I think the microphone is all yours, my friend. It goes into why I did the foundation that I'm doing now or the organization that I'm doing now. Uh I I tell the story, I'll try to keep it short. I was in a public bathroom blow drying my hands on the blow dryer there, and I thought to myself, why is there not one that can do the whole body for people who can't dry themselves? And I even met with an engineer down in Davy, and uh we talked about designing, and then I started doing more research and found out, oh, it already exists. I got a hold of the two guys who ran it, both veterans. Uh, and uh we we put it together. They wanted me to work from that for them on their profit end of it with hotels and stuff like that, and I wanted to do it as a nonprofit, but and they have been absolutely terrific. Uh Steven Schnelker, Richard Bresnahan, Tornado Body Dryer is the name of it, and that's what we supply to uh again, and I always like to point out, especially on this podcast, because I know it's for veterans, when I first started this, it was strictly for veterans and first responders. And that's how I thought about it. Uh but then I ran into people who I see are not veterans who could really use uh this equipment. The the interesting thing is when we we started out with just the body dryer, and then we saw there's a whole lot of other things that they could use. So a whole lot of companies have come in to uh to help us. Uh Toto Bidets, Delta, Fawcett's. Uh we are talking right now to management teams from Kohler and Mowen. They design a voice-activated shower where you could tell the shower on and off and what temperature.

Scott:

Uh, so now let's get a little more specific about this. This is for amputees, correct?

Art:

It's for amputees, but we do help people with ALS. We help people with Parkinson's. It's when we say amputees, one of the reasons for that, we we're going, and I'm going next month to uh it's called Enhanced Skills for Life. It is a organization actually out of Houston, uh, and I'm going back to a conference, uh, and they handle strictly amputees. When I was there three years ago, there were 74 amputees. I believe when I go back next month, there's 110. Uh they try to teach them how to live as best they can without, you know, without the arms. I know I I make fun. One of my favorite sayings is everybody poops, but not everybody can wipe. And uh you have to understand that they they go through problems that I don't think we, you know, we put in our head and we figure out what you can do. As I say, I hop in the shower, I dry off. What would I do if I couldn't do that? Yeah. And how would I do it? Aaron Powell And when did you stop this? I actually started it in 2019, but to be perfectly honest, we closed down for two years during COVID. Uh so we we've been back up for about a year and a half now. Uh we've helped about 35, 35 to 38 individuals, either with body dryers or uh Delta Faucets or bidets or with both. We also are right now getting into uh the body dryer needs to go to work properly, needs to go in a shower stall, not in a bathtub. It's extremely hard to put in a bathtub. So we're getting into converting tubs to showers so they can put in the body dryer. And what you have to understand with the body dryer, you also need electric work because it needs a 220-volt dedicated line. Uh so we have we have people around the country that we've used that helped us. Most of them give us the donation of their time and work. Uh sometimes they can't, uh, but it's a lot of work to put a 220 line uh, you know, in the shower. So uh Mr. Electric, I'd like to give a shout out to them because they were really good to us. Steve Barber out of, you know, down in Atlanta area. Uh they help us. We try to get most of the equipment as donations, but we don't always get everything as a donation. So we pay for we pay for some of it. But I will tell you the companies give us a really good break on the price. And and I always bring up Toto because their their bidet is, I believe, a $2,000 bidet, and I think we get it for $500. So 75% discount is not bad.

Scott:

Not at all. And bidets are uh very important for amputees. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Absolutely. Especially the arms.

Art:

Absolutely. And it's uh as I say, and and I think I told you before, the the one person that changed everything about what I wanted to do, that was strictly for veterans, and then it became other people, was a girl, a woman, a girl. Boy, I'll get in trouble for saying that. Uh Jessica Cox. Uh again, for anybody who cares, look her up. Uh she is one of the most incredible women I've ever seen, born with no arms, and I believe at the age of 12 decided to get rid of her prosthetics. She's, I I believe in her right at 40 or right around that age right now, uh, in the Guinness Book of World Records, met with the Pope, travels the world giving lectures to handicapped individuals. Um they have a documentary on her, I believe it's Netflix, called Right Footed. Uh and the beauty about Jessica, she is a licensed pilot. No arms, but a licensed pilot. And I tell everybody this when I tell them, if she asked me to get in a plane and fly with her, I would not hesitate for one second. She is that incredible. And uh I I think I mentioned uh back three years ago, she was at the conference with me, and the Smithsonian up in Washington, the aviation Smithsonian was redoing their place and they were reopening, and they sent a plane from Washington to Houston just to pick her up and bring her to the event just so she could be there. And then they flew her back the next day. Didn't you say you had a meal with her or something? I we met her, me and my almost wife, Sandy. Hello, Sandy. Uh we met her up in Tallahassee. Uh she was doing again a lecture up there. Uh I had met her before, but we had never eaten together. We sat down for breakfast, and my uh inclination was do you need help with napkin? With, you know, I sat and watched her unfold her napkin, cut her food, pick up her glass all with her feet. And it's like it's just second nature too. And you sit there and you're amazed that people like this can do what they do. I mean, I sit there, I always think I can I can get through everything. I'm not sure when I look at some of these people if I would have the strength that they do. And again, you have you have people that were born without arms, and then you have amputees that are recent. Uh and and we have both, we help both, and uh it's just fascinating what they can do.

Scott:

How did you so you started this in 2019? Yeah. There was a large gap of time in there where you were just living your life, doing your thing, getting married, getting divorced, you know, these things, this life. Oh, yeah. Where where was or what was the inspiration for this particular uh uh it's kind of a very like outside the box because people don't think about it.

Art:

I know. And I don't know. Uh again, it may have been the fact of AJ and you know, and then going up to the VI VA in West Palm Beach and seeing some of the guys in wheelchairs there, seeing some of the people that don't have limbs. Uh and I I don't I don't know why. I I can't put my finger on it. I I just, as I said, when I was hand I was blowing hand blowing my hands under a blow dryer, and just said, why isn't there a, you know, something that dries the whole body for people who have no arms or can't take a towel and use it. I can't I can't tell you why. I don't know that I just saw someone that was an amputee and it hit me in the head, you know, do something. I guess I was uh I I probably shouldn't say this. I teach politics or I do current events at places, and I've been doing it for 20 years or so. But uh I just felt like doing something. Other than that, I've always I've always tried to figure out if I could help people, you know, do stuff. I don't know where that came from, but it's what I wanted to do. Uh excuse me. And then it just took off. It stuck in my head, and you know, I have I always I always tell people I talk politics to I do have a demented mind. So, you know, just let me go. And then of course the problem is with a nonprofit is the money aspect. And I've luckily been working, so I've been able to fund it.

Scott:

Aaron Powell Well, as I always say, not to interrupt you, but uh you're not a true nonprofit until you've come out of pocket now. I know there's a lot of nonprofits out there saying that's not the case. Yes. It's the case for a lot of us.

Art:

Yes, it is. It is. And I uh again, I've had we've had some very good response. We do partner with Shriners. We help one of our uh one of my favorite kids is a kid named Cooper, who's in their commercials. Uh and we would like to do a lot more than them. We'd like to do as much as we can with the veterans and the veteran administration. And uh I think we're starting to do that now. But I wanted to do it. I've Scott, I've told you before, and you know how it is. The red tape. Uh I went up to the VA in 2019 or 2020 when I first started this, and offered to give them a body dryer so they could put in their prosthetics, their amputee. I'm sure they have a place up there. And they couldn't take it because of the red tape and because of who's got to do what. And it's like it it was a little annoying saying, wait a minute, I'm giving you a $2,000 piece of equipment that I think you could use, and I I couldn't get them to take it.

Scott:

You would think it would be a lot easier, but the red tape in the VA can be very thick. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Art:

Yeah. Yeah. And there is some uh don't get me wrong, but this will get me in trouble too. There's some veterans' groups that are hard to work with because they uh I guess they want the donation. And me, I'm not giving them money, I'm giving them a piece of equipment. And some of them are hard to work with. That's amazing, right? And I wish it wasn't like that, but it is, and I'm not naming any names, but it's I had had somebody reach out to me, a friend of mine up in Boston about a year ago, and he said, Hey, listen, I have he said like a container full of wheelchairs, wheelchairs and walkers, and you know, and he's like, uh we don't know what to do with them.

Scott:

Like, so you know, could we donate these? And then at first I'm like, yeah, that's amazing. But then it dawned on me, where do you store all this stuff? Yeah. Like that ends up costing a nonprofit money to store it because a nonprofit, most nonprofits don't have warehouses. No, you know, and the intention is good, but the commodity just doesn't, it's it's not uh it's it's just not practical to take a hundred wheelchairs unless you have a hundred veterans lined up that need wheelchairs, and then you're in competition with the VA because the VA gives wheelchairs also. And so there's things out there that people think are needed, but then when it comes down to it, it's like, where do I put this? Yeah. You know?

Art:

No, and I uh I'm not in competition. No. And that's what I'm trying to get across to them. I'm not in competition. You do what you do, but there are people. The thing we had with shriners uh is we had to explain to them what they do, they do at the hospitals and they do in their facilities. What we're talking about is helping the people in their homes, you know, when they're away from shriners. Uh how do they how do they get by when they're in their homes? And and that's what we're doing. I I was telling someone the other day, and I think I told you this before, I give that $19 a month, you know, to Shriners, to St. Jude's, to ASPCA. Uh yes, uh give it to you too. Am I supposed to I was told not to bang, and I was apparently banging. Ah, there you go. I'm sorry, everybody.

Scott:

That's okay.

Art:

And I said to someone the other day, I said, I'd love to have a few hundred people who give $19 a month. That would be terrific. What I really want is someone to introduce me to a multi-billionaire or millionaire, sit down with them, and just say, you know what, here's the money for a year or two. Go ahead and help the people. Again, when I when I was at the Enhanced Skills for Life three years ago, it's funny because I I I did a presentation on stage with Jessica, by the way, as she showed people how she dried off with a towel with no arms. And uh it's I have the video somewhere from that, but it's fascinating. And I said to the 74 people here, I said, my goal is to help every one of you get a body dryer, because none of these people had arms uh to get a body dryer. Well, little did I know they actually paid attention and said, okay, give me a body dryer. And it's like, oh, wait a minute. You know, it's it's one of the problems you have if you if you hit something quickly enough and then you get a whole lot of clients, and then you say, wait a minute, we don't have the funds to do that yet. It's something we have to think about. And that's what I said. I would love to meet a multimillionaire or billionaire who sees what we're doing. Uh and and the other thing, and um I I do say this no one no one who works with us takes a salary. Now, I would like to change that. And I would like the people who work with us to get paid. Uh but I've been funding it mostly myself. Uh my almost wife threw in a few bucks, but uh I'm tired of doing that. I would I would like to I would like someone else to come along and you know help out. But we're gonna help as many people as we can.

Scott:

So that's that's a thing uh with nonprofits, is you get that rush of people. And I think the last thing a nonprofit really wants to do is have a waiting list. Oh, yeah. Waiting lists, okay, they're there for a reason. It's a good thing maybe to have a waiting list, but you have those people that don't want to be on the waiting list and they lose interest and they move on. Right. And now that you feel like you let them down, right? Is there's a whole thing.

Art:

It is it is one of uh when we first started the tub to shower conversions, we thought we had everybody lined up. Uh and it turned out we didn't. And we did have a waiting list of tub-to-shower, you know. It's the same as we will probably have a waiting list now for the shower, voice-activated uh showers. But uh you have to start somewhere, you know. And it's not like I have this list of amputees in the entire country. That's why I go to conferences like Enhanced Skills for Life, uh, where I can meet meet the people there. Uh so we're we're trying to help as many people as possible, as quick as possible. A whole lot of a whole lot of problems is uh, do you own your home or do you rent? Because some of ours is renovation. If you don't own the home, I didn't even think of that. You're right. If you don't own the home, you just can't come in and do a tub-to-shower conversion. Uh so you have to see. We're doing actually right now, we're putting in a body dryer, we're redoing someone's uh who lives in a double-wide trailer. And I didn't even know, I will tell you that, I didn't even know whether you could put a 220-volt line in a trailer. And it can be done. So that's what we're doing. But you know, we run into these all the time. So then when you try to work with people like Schreiners, and I understand their privacy policy is like, so you I have to I have to rely on them to get to the people because they won't give me their information. And I understand that. That's how they do it. We don't give out information too about our clients or stuff like that. But this is what, you know.

Scott:

It's all the little nuances of a nonprofit. We all run into them. It is in different different levels and different aspects of whatever your specialty is in your nonprofit.

Art:

Absolutely.

Scott:

There's always going to be those those kind of roadblocks. And you would think that, hey, let's just make this easy. Like, I'm not gonna steal from you, but but there's a lot of people out there that that's their game. We were and they have to, we have to look out for that stuff.

Art:

I I was hacked three different times in the bank account for the nonprofit. Yeah, I don't know how the hell it happened, but it happened. Now the bank was very nice, and we got it, we got everything back. But uh people people did this. You know, I uh again, you things happen. I I will tell you that three years ago, the story that I always remember, I was getting off the elevator at this conference in hand skills, and I'm getting off the elevator, and one of their members who has no arms or legs, she was five or six years old, maybe, was rolling down the hole. And I was so shocked, and I'm looking at this little girl rolling down a hole, and I was, who am I who do I call? Who do I and then I heard her mother say, Come on, honey, we're this is how she gets around. And it's like, wait a minute, that it I was absolutely shocked at that. And then the next time I saw her, she had a she had a paintbrush under her chin laying on a table, about like this, painting, trying to paint. When I when I talk about Jessica, she yeah, pilot. She's also a black belt and taekwondo, and I think she's a surfer. Now, please tell me how you surf with no arms. You'd have to ask Jessica.

Scott:

You'd have to ask Jessica.

Art:

And by the way, she'll do a podcast for you if you want. That would be great. She's terrific. Jessica is great. Yeah, she lives in Tucson. Uh and uh I'll be seeing her in a month at the conference.

Scott:

And where's the next conference?

Art:

It's in Houston. It's right outside of Houston. It's in a little town called Sugarland, which is like 20 minutes outside of Houston, which is really a problem because my son lives in Houston and I could have stayed with him, but you know, my two my two kids and seven grandchildren are still in Texas. So uh tech Texas was an interesting place for me for 21 years.

Scott:

Well, I I uh I want to say that that this um you and I met at the VA. We did a recent outreach I was doing. We did. Um, and we got to talking, and I believe I relayed to you that this is kind of what you do is kind of it's not kind of.

Art:

Yeah.

Scott:

It is near and dear to my heart because my oldest brother, whom I just lost, uh, he was an amputee. He was uh 18, he had. Bone cancer on his knee, uh, athlete basketball, baseball, football, hockey. And at 19, at 19, I believe, he had surgery to replace the kneecap. It was back in the 70s, it was a whole new thing, and they graft a bone. But being 19 years old, you can't keep a 19-year-old down. Long story short, after seven more surgeries and a lot of rods and metal, um, they were just it just wasn't happening for him. So he actually made the decision himself. They said we can operate again, or we you we can take it off. And he said, take it off. And I ne so I never really uh looked at it any other way than this guy was my hero. Yeah, he was my hero growing up. Uh tough as nails, never complained. And when he told me that they were taking the leg off, I was devastated because I I'm like, you wait a minute. This this was never supposed to happen. So this is a family member perspective, and especially a little brother perspective. Yeah. And he told me that he was in pain every single day. Yeah, he went to bed in pain, he woke up in pain. Yep. Addictions followed, etc. Oh, yeah. But the thing I'm getting to is I never really thought of the little complications that he lived with on a daily basis. Like, as simple as in the middle of the night, you gotta get up and go to the bathroom. Well, it's not that easy with one leg. And this was amputation above the knee, and I never realized that that what a huge difference that makes. So, all these little things, you you have a prosthetic, and it's you put your stump, as he called it. I put my stump in there and and you wrap it, and if you put on weight, it's not gonna fit right. And that affects your gait and that affects how you walk. If you lose too much weight, it's not gonna fit right. Right. And you have to get a new leg. And then the leg takes a beat, and then you gotta get another leg. It's not like people were just donating legs back then.

Art:

Oh, yeah, we we do a lot of work with hangar clinic, and they're they're the biggest prosthetics people in the country. Uh and you'd be surprised how many people we run into that have major problems with their prosthetics that cause other problems. And we do one one of the biggest uh causes right now in amputations seems to be sepsis. Yeah. Uh we work with the sepsis alliance, uh and their complaint was doctors never saw sepsis until it was too late. They're now they're now checking for it a little quicker. But again, at this conference, we run into many people who lost their limbs uh because of sepsis. So there's a whole lot of reasons why it's happening. And I don't know how many people. I always ask people do we know how many people in the country are amputees? Now, it's different for us with a leg amputee as opposed to an arm amputee. Yes, because of what you do. Absolutely. But we we try to help everybody if uh, you know, whatever they need, if we could do it, we we try to do it. And we're gonna keep doing it. And hopefully I find that multimillionaire. And you know, if I don't find them first.

Scott:

Yes. I'm only gonna my friend. Oh no, all blessings. I hope you find that.

Art:

By the way, if I find them, I'll invite you to watch it. There you go. There you go. No, it it's um and and I will tell you, and I I think you will understand this, the joy that I get, or the joy that all the people who are working with me get when we do something like this, and you see the letters and the you know, the text and everything from these people. And the family members. I can't stress that enough.

Scott:

The caregivers. The caregivers. Oh, absolutely the ones that feel absolutely useless sometimes. They they can only do so much and the frustration that the amputee lives with. And even doesn't matter. It didn't matter how many years my brother has lost his leg, I don't know, 30 years. Yeah. There's a lot of things that don't change. They don't go away because it just is what it is.

Art:

No, absolutely. And it's uh it's just some uh again, when I said when I sat down with Jessica to breakfast, it's like I never thought about cutting food or doing this or doing that. Uh and then when you again, everybody poops, but you can't wipe, everybody showers, but not everybody can dry themselves, you know. Uh the little things that we take for granted.

Scott:

That I know that's very cliche, but it's so true in this case.

Art:

Absolutely. One of the biggest items we had when we first got it was a delta faucet that was voice activated. And you just tell it what you want and it does it. You don't have to press anything, you don't have to hit anything. So the people with no arms are like, this is this is terrific. You know, the thing with the shower, the voice-activated shower. Um, and we're we're trying to figure out the best way to do it. I believe you have to have Siri or Alexa, you know, do it for you. You're not talking to the shower, you're talking through Alexa and Siri, you know. And my favorite joke is why why I'm bad with women, is because I said, Alexa, how come I'm so bad with women? And she said, I'm Siri, you idiot. So, you know. Anyway, that's I thought I had to get a joke in there.

Scott:

You got it in there, my friend.

Art:

Very clever, very clever. I I said before, we try to do everything with a sense of humor. And uh to me, it's the most important thing in life, I tell you. I uh you talked about your brother with cancer. A week after my 65th birthday, I was told I have leukemia. And I've had it for I'll be 80 years old next month, next year. Look at you. Yeah. Looking like you're only 65. Oh, good. I please keep that in the video. Do not get rid of that one. Uh but it was like if they didn't tell me, I wouldn't know, because I've never had anything that says I have it. They caught it early enough. I take a chemo pill every day, and it seems to work. And the doctor even said he said you have the garden variety of leukemia. Well, thank you for that. But it's still cancer, and you know, but uh I do have a relative or a friend that's going through chemo right now, and I know the side effects of that, so I feel extremely lucky that it was the garden variety. Yeah. You know, and again, I I credit the VA for that because the only reason I knew that is because they do blood tests twice a year. And if they didn't do that, I don't know when I would have gone to get a blood test, and I don't know how much the leukemia would have affected me. Yeah. Now I do argue with the VA too, because I was uh exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam, but I have the wrong type of leukemia. So the VA doesn't want to talk about a disability, you know. And I know I'm not pushing it.

Scott:

Yeah.

Art:

But it is what it is.

Scott:

There you go. Yeah. So if somebody wanted to get in touch with your found your project, foundation organization, right? Uh what's the website?

Art:

No whiteflags.org. Uh go there. You can get in touch with us through the website. Uh it is I don't know how to put it. We don't we keep redoing our website. We keep having things pop up that we want on our website. Where as I said, when I first started, it was strictly the body dryer. Well, now it's faucets, now it's redo's uh shower, voice activated shower. So we're adding, you know, as we go along. So we're we're trying to update the website as as much as possible. Uh it is the best way to contact you can contact me, art at no whiteflags.org. Uh I don't know if you want me to give my cell number. That's uh that's strictly up to you, my friend. Okay, yes. Uh 561-460-3785. And you can contact me. We do we do have a number for the organization, but it's a 800 number that's uh kind of like a virtual number. And you know, we get the message, but it's easier this way. And you can text me or you know, leave a voice message and I will get back to you. And we try to help people as quickly as we can. It's not always easy to do it quick. Yeah. Uh, but we do we do try to help as quickly as we can.

Scott:

I would be remiss if I didn't ask you how did you come up with the name No White Flags?

Art:

Uh I had I wanted to do a production company with that handicap artist I told you. And it was called the No No White Flags Production Company. And we couldn't do it for various reasons, a whole lot of reasons. And the name always stuck in my mind. Never never surrender. And that's that's basically where it comes from. When I see these people, and it's like they're not surrendering. They are trying to. I I think I told you before, and I would I would love people to know about this, and I might send you the draft video for you to put on this if you can. We are trying to do a video, we wanted to do a flash mob of amputees dancing to what doesn't kill you makes you stronger by Kelly Clarkson. We have some videos, they're drafts, they're rough drafts. When I go to the conference, I'm gonna try to get a whole lot more people dancing. Uh, and then we're gonna have someone put something together, and we do possibly have an end to Kelly Clarkson. So we're hoping once she sees what we're trying to do. And again, these are amputees dancing, telling you what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. In other words, never surrender. In other words, no white flags.

Scott:

There you go. That's a beautiful thing, my friend.

Art:

There it is. Did we miss anything? I don't. God knows I could talk forever, but I I don't I don't think so. I think there's fine. How long how long do usually you keep the podcast to? Uh we can't.

Scott:

Time-wise. I it's usually about an hour or 45. 45 minutes to an hour.

Art:

I could never talk that long. It's crazy. Uh no, it's just uh uh again, it's the most pleasing thing I think I've ever done. Uh and it's when you talk to these people. They go through, and I I gotta tell you, some of them are absolutely amazing. They uh you never hear a complaint, you don't hear one word out of them, and you you look at them, and you know, quad amputees. Uh one of my one of the guys who just joined the organization, he last February lost both arms and legs, I believe from sepsis. But we had we had breakfast of about a year ago up in uh Tampa, and it's just fascinating. And again, one of the reasons he can do it is his wife is right there with him, and he's a terrific guy. He's gone, he went skydiving, uh, and he wants to do it again. But again, he something happened and he had to have more surgeries. The the thing with some of these folks is that they uh they do come back and they have other problems that they have to deal with. It's not always, you know, just amputees and it's done. Uh as I said, one of my favorite, Cooper, uh Hostetler, uh, is a he's a Shriner's kid. Uh he has, and I wish I wish I remembered the name of it. I I know I don't know if he's on a shirt, I'm sure he's on the poster. Uh he has arms, but they're up here. He has or he has got the blue shirt on?

Scott:

He's got the blue shirt, young kid? Yes. Yeah.

Art:

That's Cooper. So he has uh he has hands, but he he doesn't have arms. And the two kids. Yeah, the two children. Yep, Leanne and uh Landon, it it's the same. And the interesting thing with that is if I understand it right, their their mother was told you you shouldn't have another, you know, one was gonna be it. And when she had the second one, the same thing happened. Same as uh Linda Bannon, I don't believe she's on, she's probably on here again. Uh she was born with no arms. Uh was told by the doctor your chance of having a child with no arms uh not gonna happen. And of course, she had a son and he was born with no arms. So, you know, who knows?

Scott:

Yeah, who knows? Well, my friend, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. Absolutely. I I I appreciate what you do uh from the heart. Again, uh, family members of amputees, it's that's a whole nother thing that they, you know, it there's a whole different emotion, and uh and there's a lot of ups and downs that go with it because and the caregivers, I should just say in general caregivers. Um when you see them going through what they go through are the little struggles that you can't really step in and do much because a lot of them don't want you to do it either. They don't.

Art:

They don't.

Scott:

You know, don't my brother was uh big on don't pity me. Yeah. Don't pity me. Yeah, you know. Um yeah, you know what? I wanted to touch on this. Back in our day, I'm six, I'm gonna be sixty-two in December, so a child. Yeah, I know, right? Um it was very there was a there was a heavy stigma on amputees. Yes. Like there was they were they it they literally, it was you stared at them because you didn't see a lot of it. Absolutely. And then after the war, and these were a lot of veterans too that came back from World War I, World War II, uh, Vietnam, Korea, etc. It seems today in in this world we live in, um, as crazy and as beautiful as it can be, there's a more acceptance to it, and I see a lot more amputees being bold about it and owning it. Oh, yes. Because back then you didn't they didn't own it. Yeah. They were they there was a lot of and I watched my brother go through this as a as a kid. Yes. Having to deal with this. Now it's just like, yeah, here I am. And I think that that's that's an amazing turning.

Art:

Oh, absolutely. I mean you you've you come I th I think that happens every every 10 or 20 years in our country where things change. You know, they uh the the gay community 20 years ago were still hiding in the closet. You know, they don't do that anymore because uh or they shouldn't do it anymore. Right. So uh this happens with everything. I I don't you may not remember, but I certainly do about how the Vietnam vets were treated. Yeah. You know, we were baby killers, we were, you know, and then people started understanding wait a minute, we did what we were asked to do for the country. So uh And thank you for that. Thank you. Your service laid the groundwork for my service. Yeah. And I appreciate that. But uh again, i it's we evolve, you know, and we keep evolving, and hopefully we keep evolving. Because I'm sure we're gonna run into other problems too. So hopefully not, but it's well. We'll end it on a positive note. There you go. Hopefully not. There you go. No whiteflags.org. There you go. Come and visit us and we'll we'll try to take care of you. Yes. And the email again? Uh art at no whiteflags.org or info at no whiteflags.org. Either one will work.

Scott:

There you go. Well, again, my friend, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate immensely what you what you do, and uh I I I feel your pain with the grind of a small one two-person nonprofit, but you know what? I look at it this way, and I always said this, I always said this from the time I was in my 20s and I was watching my brother. I mean anything that came across me that was uh uh a barrier, yeah. Or just the the shit hit the fan and things aren't going good. Yep. And I always looked at it this way. If my brother could go through what he went through, I can certainly get through this. Absolutely. And that mindset got me through a lot. Yes. Alcoholism, it got me through a lot. Deaths. Absolutely. And it's that perseverance that amputees and and and I'm just being specific because of this conversation. Yeah. But the perseverance that they have. Right. Is I mean, people should be just absolutely inspired by it to just look in the look at yourself and go, wait a minute, it maybe it's not so bad.

Art:

Yeah. No, I couldn't uh uh agree more as I say, I I look at these people and it's like, are you kidding me? Could I do that? Yeah. And I my first reaction is I'm not sure. Yeah. And I think I'm a fairly strong person, but I I look at that and go, I I don't know. And especially the ones I I kind of uh the people who are born without arms, they have no recourse. All right. The ones that just had amputations who don't we just had an electrician uh got zapped and lost both arms. And it's like, okay. And he doesn't know how to live without the arms. So we're bringing him down to the conference.

Scott:

Beautiful.

Art:

You know, because that's they they have they have uh taekwondo down there, they have artwork, they have a golf lesson. Again, for people with no arms, but they have a golf lesson. And I understand, by the way, I'm afraid to ask her. I understand Jessica is learning golf. Uh I play golf. I'm a little bit afraid that, and I'm not a great golfer whatsoever, but uh I'm afraid she's gonna be better than me in the world. She will immediately. Yes, I'm sure she will. That's no doubt. Yes. Scott, I can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it.

Scott:

It was a pleasure meeting you at the VA. It was a pleasure having breakfast with you last week. And it's even more pleasure having you on the podcast.

Art:

Really appreciate it, Scott. Thank you.

Scott:

Absolutely. So I'm just gonna do my outro and we'll talk when I go off the air. Well, we built another bridge today. This one was an uh amputee bridge, no white flag bridge. It was a no white flags bridge. That's right. And listen, I I I just want to say this. If if you like what art is doing, if you like what the no white flags project is doing, I say this, this is a video podcast. Now it's audio also, but now it's video, and I'm gonna tell the viewing audience. Give them your money. If you like it, give them your money. I'm sure the website has a donate button. And if you like the work they're doing, every dollar counts. It really does. So we could also use ambassadors around the country. And this is for civilians. I mean, I so I say civilians a lot because for 32 years I was um for non-veterans. This is also for non-veterans. So if you're listening or you're seeing this and you have a person in your life that is an amputee and might be able to use the services that the No White Flags Project offers, reach out to Art and and I'm sure he'll do what he can to help you out. So you got it. With that said, uh, I want to thank you for watching again. Thank you for listening. And if you like it, share it. If you didn't like it, well, thanks for watching and listening for 52 minutes. I appreciate that. And I'll see you next week.

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Scott McLean

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