The VetsConnection Podcast

Ep. 67 - Hayley Thomas, A Former Navy Dog Handler Shares How Skillbridge, Horses, And Faith Shaped Her Next Mission

• Scott McLean • Episode 67

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We trace Haley’s path from Navy Master-at-Arms to K9 handler, through injury, loss, and COVID isolation, and into a Skillbridge placement at an equine nonprofit that helped her reframe control, connection, and purpose. Candid stories of hypervigilance, TBI questions, therapy wins, and the reality of starting over as a single mom sharpen a hopeful blueprint for transition.

• choosing the Navy and MA route amid height and weight assumptions
• earning the leash, certification pressure, and kennel culture
• Bahrain duty, mentorship, and leadership’s impact on morale
• injury, family loss, COVID quarantine, and mental health fallout
• clear Skillbridge guidance, timelines, and approval insights
• equine-assisted learning at Herd and the predator vs prey shift
• transition stress, hypervigilance, sleep images, and TBI questions
• therapy as a performance system and guarding care continuity
• faith, single motherhood, and redefining purpose and leadership
• future plans: MBA path, nonprofit vision, serving veterans

If you liked it, share it. If you didn’t like it, well, thanks for watching and listening for an hour and seven minutes, eight minutes.


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Scott McLean:

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. My guest today is Haley Thomas. Haley is she's an interesting interview. She's currently active duty, but she's in the Skill Bridge program, which I didn't know anything about the Skill Bridge program until my friend Wes Lewison, uh, who lives in Mississippi, was in the Navy, and he explained to me. And I think Nick Cannon from the Wounded Veterans Relief Fund also uh did the skill bridge. It's it's not a common thing, and I really want to get into what it's all about. So, with all that said, how are you today, Haley?

Hayley Thomas:

I'm good. Thank you. How are you?

Scott McLean:

I'm doing great. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Hayley Thomas:

I'm excited to be here.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, yeah. Well, not everybody's excited to be here, so I'd like to hear that.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, I was practicing on the way over here. Like I say.

Scott McLean:

Oh, this is easy. Yeah. Uh so where are you from originally?

Hayley Thomas:

Um, I always like go back and forth on this just because I'm a military brat myself. My dad um has moved around a lot, and um, we did settle in Maryland for quite some time, and then when he retired, that's when they hauled off to Florida. Um, and then I settled myself out in Colorado for a little while. So I claim Colorado. I just love it out there.

Scott McLean:

So uh when did you go in the military?

Hayley Thomas:

Uh 2018.

Scott McLean:

2018. What branch?

Hayley Thomas:

Navy.

Scott McLean:

Ah, the Navy.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Very the Navy is uh I was just talking about this on my last uh podcast. So you get a lot in this in this space, like the the nonprofit space, is it's mostly what I do. A lot of Marines.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Scott McLean:

And there's Army, and then you're starting to see the Air Force kind of rise up, but the Navy seems to be few and far between.

Hayley Thomas:

That you know of. We just don't say it out loud sometimes.

Scott McLean:

Why the Navy?

Hayley Thomas:

Um, well, couple reasons. The Army wouldn't take me because of the tattoo on the back of my neck, and I think I might have been too short for the Air Force, so I ended up at the Navy. Okay. I bebobbed from one office to the next at the recruiter station. So but they've been good to me, so I'm thankful.

Scott McLean:

So, okay, let let's let's um before we get into the whole skill bridge thing, let's talk about that if you don't mind. So, yeah, you your height, and five foot, right? So uh what just cards on the table, what were the reactions you got from the recruiters right off the bat?

Hayley Thomas:

Uh um just like they were mindful of that. I mean, when even I'm sure I know you know like military standards, uh your weight also correlates with your height, and then your age and then and so forth, female, male. Um, so all of that can kind of come into play with how you're considered. I've always been taped at every PRT, but I'm always well within regs. But because I'm a 150-pound, five-foot-tall female, I come off too high in those standards. So um at first, you know, no one really gave me much pushback about it. Um, it wasn't until I selected my rate that I realized like my height was gonna be part of like something I have to be aware of at all times because my partner is gonna probably be much taller than me, you know, and they're gonna have to look out for me. So I have to be able to carry the same weight as them.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. So you always being aware and self-conscious.

Hayley Thomas:

Self-conscious of of my stature, you know. So I gotta walk into the room like I'm six feet tall. Yeah, you know, my I gotta be subject matter expert. I gotta, you know, be the smartest guy in the room about what we're about to do, even though I'm the shortest guy in the room. So girl, yeah. But um it does play a factor mentally.

Scott McLean:

How did that um how did that affect you during uh basic training?

Hayley Thomas:

Basic training didn't bother me. Um the swimming. I just realized, like, oh my goodness, you know, I got some work to do. Yeah, never been a big swimmer, but basic training, you know, I soared through that.

Scott McLean:

Um, there's no ocean in Colorado?

Hayley Thomas:

What? I just try to avoid the water at all costs.

Scott McLean:

The landlocked person goes in the navy, go find you.

Hayley Thomas:

I cannot swim. Um, but I made it. I sorry I swim to survive. Um, but it wasn't until I got to A school because I ended up um selecting MA. That was um at first it was not as intentional until later on in my career when I tried to shoot for canine. But um going towards MA is when I realized that thought process. MA is Master at Arms, military police and other branches as known. Um, but that's when I I realized like my height is a factor.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. So you ended up doing what?

Hayley Thomas:

Uh I finished off as a dog handler as a second class.

Scott McLean:

You did, okay, good.

Hayley Thomas:

Um, but with being a dog handler um in the Navy specifically, you have to work towards it. You have to go through the kennel support, you have to, you know, roll with the the guys and and learn all about the the atmosphere of the kennel, and you know, they kind of got to feel you out too. Uh very selective, um, selected community as it should be. Um, and uh yeah, I had to put my time in.

Scott McLean:

So um I went through, I was canine for 10 years in the Air Force. Uh my uh instructor was a Navy instructor, he was a Navy petty officer. Okay, you know, petty officer daily, great, great guy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Um hard, but you know, but but great guy. And in my class, I went in 1987, basic training, then law enforcement academy, and then you had to try out at that point. And uh there was a a good amount of people that tried out, and I had had uh I have a degree in canine science, so I had a big head, you know, and I had been working dogs before I went into the military, so I had a hands up on it, but uh there was a couple of females that that were in our class, so they ended up being eight of us, and there was three females. Uh one of them was probably like five ten. She she was a tall girl, yeah. Uh, and the smallest one was probably about your size.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Now I know this to be true that when you're handling those malalois, they can pull you down. Oh, yeah. Like that is a that's a factor. That is a factor. And um, but I watched this this young woman, uh, she got pulled down, she got dragged, but you know what? She got back up, she didn't fucking give up.

Hayley Thomas:

I love that.

Scott McLean:

She she held like she went the whole six weeks. And she there was and there was another one a little bigger, it was like she had three sides. And uh, but this this this young woman uh she took a beating, yeah, but she stuck it out, she never quit. She had some great. So I give you a lot of respect for uh for you know going through that because it's extra hard on you. And I know for a fact there were mornings where you got to that kennel and you went, yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

I mean there were you remember um I don't Yeah, I know that you know, yeah, like you had to walk up and down, I I think they called it shithill or something. And there'd be days they send us out in classes, like just you're just drawing dogs, you don't know who you're gonna get, whatever. And oh man, you know, it was something about the Texas heat for me that kind of like like dehydrated.

Scott McLean:

Oh, that San Antonio humidity is insane.

Hayley Thomas:

And I had just come from Bahrain and I thought I could handle it. I could not because I got this dog, and he it it wasn't it really wasn't the dog, it was really because the guy in front of me was scared of his dog and and stopped or did something crazy, and I was just always on alert because I didn't want one of them safety hits because of someone else's. Yeah. I knew I could control me, but someone else who wasn't, you know, on top of their shit, you know. And um something happened where I just I I was trying to maintain the dog because there's stuff going on in front of me, and I went down, my knees buckled, my and went down. I felt both my hammies pull, it was nut, but I got back up and I kept moving. So that was, I mean, that's just the you gotta have grit.

Scott McLean:

That's right, and that job.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, and you can't say nothing, you just keep moving and keep going and deal with it later and recover and don't let that happen again.

Scott McLean:

And that is a very, very alpha male uh job.

Hayley Thomas:

It's a man's world.

Scott McLean:

It it that that I'm and I'm not taking anything away from from uh uh females in the military, but they are few and far between, number one, in the in the canine world in the military, few and far between. Uh and they really have to prove themselves to these to these guys.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. To operate at the same level, yeah.

Scott McLean:

You know, because you're it's ultra competitive. Uh my dog's better than your dog. We're all a team, we all stick up for each other, we all run with each other, we run with the dogs, the whole thing. But there is that like, I'm better than you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

You know, and that goes for men too. I've seen, you know, there was uh that particular female I was talking about, she actually uh uh outperformed one of the one of the guys in my class. Yeah, you know, yeah uh because I think she had that extra determination. Yeah, she had something to prove. Not gonna quit. Yeah, yeah. Um so okay, so you do that for how long?

Hayley Thomas:

Um, let's see. I so I picked up Leash in 22, and I'm it's 25 now, so just about that extent of time to be honest with you. I just had a baby boy, he's amazing. Um, so that did eat up my stint in my canine career, to be honest with you. I only had a shoot a few short years on Leash.

Speaker 2:

But you did it.

Hayley Thomas:

I did it. I was blessed with uh uh three different awesome dogs, four technically, but one of them went down pretty early on. Amazing dog, he's adopted out now. But um, I got to I got to do it. It was what my heart was wanting. I didn't get what I wanted out of it eventually, like to begin with. But um, because I had a vision for myself and I prayed over this. I was uh, you know, what they say, job locked. Um, like I'm going canine, you know, and that like I wasn't gonna go any other route. Um and I I got canine and I went through the school. I graduated top of the class, like it was an awesome experience. I was humbled by it, the handlers I met. I got some tough critiques in class, but um with those dogs, you have to. You have to. Um, but I also struggled too, because like with canine, and I'm sure you know this, is like you have to be able to break loose mentally. Because you don't know what your dog's gonna do each and every day. You could have the same dog, but you don't know how they're gonna wake up that day, and you gotta be able to move through that and be able to pick that leash up and be ready. And um, so at first, yeah, I definitely had trouble breaking loose mentally. Like I'm a very like, you know, have to maintain control of scenarios and know the black and white, and I know all the rules and regulations. But so I that was my downfall um with dog handling and training. And um then when I became pregnant and you know, I'm a single mom at that, um it shifted everything in me mentally and physically and spiritually, it was just like this is my calling, you know, and I um that's something like I wake up every day and I know I'm a damn good mom. Like I can do that, like I can move through that, no problem. I love my baby and I love being a mom, and that was my purpose in life. So that's when I really also shifted at work though, too. And I was like, I can't be in a man's world anymore, personally, to be honest with you. It was really hard for me to function. Like the there's literal, literally uh body changes that happen to a woman the moment she's impregnated. Like the brain fog is real, and you can feel the wheels, you can almost see them turning slowly. And so being in an operations heavy uh division where they're concerned about ops, and you're sitting there just trying to process the conversation, maintain level heads, stand tall, make sure like you just it's it's really hard, and you can't look at someone be like, I'm sorry, let me catch up on that conversation real fast because my wheels are turning slow. They're gonna look at you sideways, like you're armed up just as much as they are. I mean, in the beginning, I was before I knew I was pregnant, but um, yeah, it it changed everything for me. So um it did, it did put a a stint in my career for that.

Scott McLean:

So before you were canine, you said you were aware in Bahrain?

Hayley Thomas:

In Bahrain.

Scott McLean:

What was what was going on? What were you doing over there?

Hayley Thomas:

Um, just standard landside uh security, forest protection, um, standing posts, um, checking IDs, you know, working the forest protection ops. Um, it was very humbling. Um, great experience. Um, but that's where I did do my kennel support. And to be clear, my first year of the military in 2018, I joined as a reservist. Um, and that was because I had gone through a very uh, very life-altering scenario where I was at one point homeless and a family took me in and and got me back on my feet, got me a job, and God was like working, and I got blessed by the Lord to join the military, but I waited and prayed on it, and I joined the reserves at first, and then I got through uh boot camp, A school, and I crushed it in in A school, graduated top of the class there too, and then I got back to my job and I realized, oh my gosh, I'm so young, I'm so strong, I'm so capable. Lord, there has to be more for me. What can I do? And I also was more like hungry to provide more stability for myself financially, retirement-wise, um, healthcare wise, all of this and that. And so that's where I got zeroed in on what else is out there in the Navy. What can the Navy offer me? And that's when I started pulling the thread at K9. And then that's where I was job blocked and said, I'm only gonna take an active duty billet if it's MA, so I can go K9. And they looked at me crazy. And sure enough, when Seaway opened and they said, uh, job, there's no jobs for you, Thomas, unless you want to go these other rates. I was like, Nope, you know what I want. And then hung up the phone 30 minutes later, and they're like, Thomas, I don't know how you do it. Uh, you got selected.

Scott McLean:

I was like prayed on it.

Hayley Thomas:

I said, the Lord is good. And uh so when I did that, I literally got on my knees one night and it was like right just right around New Year's, and I was like, uh, I I I closed my eyes, I allowed the Lord to speak to me, and I saw myself working dogs. I saw that as an honorable way to serve God and my country. And um, so I set my mind to it, and that's what I did. And so I went uh first duty station was Bovrain. Um, I was like, how do I get to the kennel? And they're like, hold on, Thomas, you gotta get qualified. So I got qualified, and um this is where I really truly experienced the hand of God is like strategic people came along in my path who had been in the military for a long time, and they were just awesome leaders. And like looking back, I realize now what the true like importance is in the military. It's the people that you're standing side by side, you know, the people that are there with you, boots on the ground, sweat and blood, sweat and tears with you. Like those guys is who you're doing everything for. Um, because these people walked into my life and they they guided me. And I would not have like, yes, I had the drive. That was undeniable, but it needed to be focused. And I didn't know that. But and so I'm thankful these people walked in, they positioned, positioned me correctly, guided me, taught me how to lead, taught me how to chase qualifications, and in doing so, I got promoted within a year of being active duty, made E5 fast, um, way too fast because it was just like as soon as E5 went on, you know how it is. They're like, oh no, you gotta have like seven more collaterals.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

But um, so uh then I got into kennel support. Um, I was pushing boots on the ground for that too, um, really hard. And then um, so it was kennel support, you know, running collaterals, got mapped, and then a lot of shit hit the fan. And that's when I really experienced uh the mental downturn of what takes place in the military, you know. Uh, because when I got there, everyone, it was like really sad. I was like a light. Everybody was like, wow, you really love Jesus. Like you're Jesus freak. And I didn't know any different, you know. I I love God. Um just coming from reserves, going active. Reserves, you can cultivate your own atmosphere and such. But going active, like you're forced to live in the barracks, you're forced to report to duty with these people, you're forced to stand 12 hours post with whoever's on the watch bell. So like your atmosphere quickly becomes polluted by with whoever's in that, you know, not to say everyone's bad, but then you're around negativity, around, you know, people are struggling with depression, anxiety, trauma, whatever it might be. And pile on top of that, COVID is hot and heavy. So some people were trapped on this island for a long time, couldn't move, couldn't leave. Uh so the the it was uh really uh it was really dark there. Really dark. And then so yeah, when I when I hit my d mental downturn, that was uh that was tough.

Scott McLean:

What happened?

Hayley Thomas:

What were the uh so I got mapped and I quickly had an I had an accident. I had that's where I got my TBI from. I fell six feet hit the ground. Um and uh full kit on and everything, smacked my head on concrete, um, like got a bulging disc in my back because of that. Um but being short, five foot two, grit, you know, I got back up and I kept moving. And I fell again later that day. I was doing inspections on vehicles, and I know it sounds so stupid because I felt stupid, but like that's my accident, that's what happened. And uh first class pulled me off, canine first class looking out for me. And um, he was like, You gotta go to the hospital, you gotta take care of yourself, you got a concussion, you gotta get checked out. And I'm glad I did now looking back because I mean I'm in pain and I have issues um, you know, with my my memory and whatnot, and uh the VA's looking at all that. So and then shortly after that, I had a major death in the family. The family that took me in, rescued me like from being homeless, Papa, he passed away. Um that was that was hard because I I'm all the way overseas. I was detached just a little, you know, from I knew he was sick. But you have to sometimes in that moment you have to remain kind of detached uh to keep moving, to stay focused on the mission. Um and also you have that weirdness of like people don't understand what you're going through every day and what you're having to get done while you're overseas, and like they forget to call you or they forget to update you and things like that, or you just you're out of sight, you're out of mind. But um again, being divinely positioned, uh-huh. There I had a first class um who till this day I thank this man, but he fought for me to to head back home overseas for the funeral. Um thankful I got to do that because he was a good man. Um and then I get back and because of flying, caught COVID, and that was the time in which uh they put you in the hotel for several days. So I got stuck in a hotel for 17 days. So I was out of duty, out of section from the accident to the death uh to COVID for quite some time, and I had lost touch with the kennel support um mission. I just felt like I was I'd lost sight of it, you know, and I was kind of giving up on myself. Um and there was also then a change in chain of command when I got back, and that really rocked my world because I didn't know who my enemies were when walking in. I had enemies, I didn't know that. Um, and I'll tell you, like, one dynamic leader has the potential to affect the mental health and capacity of an entire division because I witnessed it. And uh that's when I was a little less uh I was not I was naive at that point, I'd say. I didn't understand it like I do now.

Scott McLean:

The the party was over.

Hayley Thomas:

The party was over.

Scott McLean:

The honeymoon was over.

Hayley Thomas:

Uh the honeymoon, that's it.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the honeymoon was over, and now you're starting to see the real deal of what it's like.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

I I worked under more than a couple of those people. And you're absolutely right. One asshole can ruin the whole the whole thing.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, it gives me chills thinking about it.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. The morale. And morale is everything. Especially when you're overseas.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, because you gotta hold each other down. That's right. You know, I mean, I've seen people show up to shift like still intoxicated, but that's how they're surviving. I mean, uh it's just the things I saw and how people were trying to handle the mental health and not being able to get the help that they could get. Oh man, breaks your heart.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. So you finally get out of there, right? And you come back stateside.

Hayley Thomas:

Mm-hmm. I can't I went to dog school.

Scott McLean:

So that's right, yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

Dog school, sea school. Um, and then I went to San Diego. So, and that's where I finished off.

Scott McLean:

What uh what base is San Diego?

Hayley Thomas:

Uh 32nd, yeah. Massive base.

Scott McLean:

And it's uh what's the name of it?

Hayley Thomas:

Uh 32nd Street, Naval Base San Diego.

Scott McLean:

32nd Street, okay. What's the is there another naval facility?

Hayley Thomas:

There's Coronado, Point Loma.

Scott McLean:

So Coronado, I was stationed in Riverside, okay, California. Okay. Right up the 60. Yeah. Right? Straight shot right down to San Diego. We would go on to Coronado because they had their own beach. If you're in the military, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

But um, there was always something about those marine gate guards. They they see the Air Force guys and they're like, that shirt is unacceptable. Like they always had something to say. Yeah. Yeah, they always had something to say. But uh it's a beautiful base.

Hayley Thomas:

Yes.

Scott McLean:

It was the only beach I've ever been to that had a Burger King on it. It had like it was just their gyms are amazing.

Hayley Thomas:

They had everything. They have everything. Yeah. It's a great thing.

Scott McLean:

And there was the most torturous post I could ever think of. And I was security police. They had this uh it was like an armory. Right off the beach.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Probably 40 yards off the beach. And this and there's this one Marine, you know, guarding it. And he has to sit there in full or stand there in full gear for eight at least eight hours and watch all these people at the beach. Watch all these people walk by and go to the beach.

Hayley Thomas:

Enjoy and still sit in the drink.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, that's I felt bad for that guy.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, that's true.

Scott McLean:

But uh, so okay, so you finish your time there. Everything was good there? Everything was That was a rough one.

Hayley Thomas:

That was a rough one, okay. Yeah. Um, you know, good I I think though, that's where coming from what happened in in Bahrain, you know, because I was landside, and I had an opportunity to speak up and give the people a voice, essentially, because I had accrued evidence. I had spoken to several people, I had a team of people ready to go and come, you know, come forward with this information in regards to a leader. And I I chickened out. I'll be honest with you, I was scared. I saw politically how things moved, and I felt too small. I felt too small. Um, but then I went to San Diego and um yeah, that was there was another very, very, very similar scenario, and I just I I knew I could not sit back, so I spoke and I'm glad I did because it was the right thing to do. You gotta give your people a voice. I'm a big believer and advocate in that. Um, but in d in doing so I've heard things are good though, people are functioning well. Um, so but I also experienced the other side to it. Like some of my best friends till this day are all handlers. Like they're people that like treated me like family. Like the canine community can be very family oriented.

Scott McLean:

Not a lot of us. Not a lot, but there's you know, it's a very small percentage of uh of the military that are handlers, that are dog handlers.

Hayley Thomas:

So like it becomes tight knit, close like people I got your back, you need help, you need a lift, your car broke down. You know, I when my I was going through it with my son and ended he ended up in the hospital a lot. I mean, it was handlers that had stepped up to help me, you know, and I didn't have that in Bahrain. So, you know, I uh I truly, truly saw a different like breath of fresh air as far as like family-oriented, like within the kennel. So like I I can't say that enough about canine. Like it is select for like selected for a reason, you know, but it is family-oriented, so it just wasn't for me, is all that it was.

Scott McLean:

I went in in 87, I went to the Philippines. I still have friends to this day. Uh I was there 87 to 89, dog handlers and regular law enforcement, you know, security guys. But uh dog handlers, and my next base, I was I in a text group with them to this day. Yeah, and then the next base, dog handler friends still, and my last base in Kirtland in New Mexico. Dog handlers, we stick together.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

We stick together. Yeah, and I don't care what the Marines say, how tough they are, you can't beat that dog.

Hayley Thomas:

No.

Scott McLean:

The only bullet you can call back.

Hayley Thomas:

That's what I used to say.

Scott McLean:

The only bullet you can call back.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Those are some great dogs right there.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Did you work uh uh a detector dog?

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, so I got but I got both sides of the house uh with explosives and narcotics, but I I definitely specialize more in the narcotics house um because of you know, being a single parent, they like I was so supported with my scheduling and um time off and such, and my son being sick a lot uh because he has chronic health issues. Um being on a drug detector dog, I could support the operations better that way. So I was very thankful for that. That like honestly, I couldn't have been more supported as a single mother than I was there, you know. As far as scheduling and operations, I know how tough it can be, and they didn't have to be like that.

Scott McLean:

So then there's the other side of it. So certifications. A drug dog certification ain't so bad. That explosive dog certification is that's a mother. That's in front of the base commander. That is like you got I it's probably more OTIS at this point, but when I was in, it was there were 12, 13 OTIs that we had to Yeah, there's less than we were searching for everything like here all day. Yeah, and that that certification was an all-day certification, you know, and uh very stressful. Yeah, because everything's on the line, but those every year you got to certify.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, I mean, it's still the same, but um, yeah, explosives is definitely I love having this conversation because I never get to talk to dog handles like yeah, especially someone that uh, you know, I talk to my old dog handler friends, we laugh about it, but like getting this fresh take on a newer dog handler. Oh, sure. And uh and I know you walk into my shoes, you walked in my shoes, trust me. Yeah, trust me. So uh the Skillbridge. So, how did you get into the Skillbridge program?

Hayley Thomas:

Um, so I just kind of started pulling the thread on my own, to be honest with you. Um, it's a very unique, awesome program. Um, there's actually a podcast, like whenever anyone asks me about it, I send it out out and around. Um, it's an aviation podcast that discusses it fully in depth, which I'm thankful for. Um, but I started doing my research, and there's benefits for anyone and everyone who's interested in it. If you're looking to go off and go through a police academy, pick up another trade, go through welding school. If you want to go, if you know where what company you want to work for, um, you can go through Skillbridge as an intern and walk into your civilian career with a job in hand. Um, so that is the purpose. It's designed to help uh service members transition into the civilian sector a lot more smoothly. Um, the common misconception about it is that um when most people start on the path of like exploring Skillbridge, because it sounds great to get out of the military sooner than anticipated, um, is that if they just go on Skillbridge and research what careers are available under the Skillbridge platform, they can they think that's all that's there. When in actuality, if you have a little bit more drive, you can honestly find someone who's willing to partner with DOD Skillbridge, go through the process of getting approved, and they become a Skillbridge provider themselves. And so knowing that, yes, you have to kind of plan very preemptively a year, year and a half out, we're talking. Um Because two years out, you should be networking, rubbing elbows, like deciding who it is you're like trying what's your aim, where are you trying to go? Um, because you want to have good connection in the civilian world. Um, and then about a year and a half out is when like you should probably decide and have them start at applying if they're not already approved. Um, because it is a slow turn and wheel, the DOD scale bridge approval process. Um, and then yeah, once they're good to go, you submit your application in a timely manner, can like according to like what your chain of command authorizes for you to take based off your rank and and so forth and and rate. And um it's it's been a blessing. Like I I transitioned out of the military six months in advance. I separated, got my DD214. Um, and you know, I knew going into my Skillbridge internship that I wasn't walking with a job. It was more so the atmosphere in which it places me in to make some very pivotal decisions in my life. Like, what's my master's degree program gonna be in? Uh, what's the next big job that I want to work? Like I wanted my big girl job, my forever job. Um, I don't want to just work to get by anymore. I'm too grown for that. Um, but I also knew like I was interested in the fact that social work might be the route for me in pursuing a VA job in the future because you need a master's degree for a lot of the positions at the VA. And so I just kind of wanted to get in that environment, mental health, and combine it with my original passion of horses. I grew up riding and working horses, and um, I have a couple degrees in equine business and management, horse training and management. Um, and so I just kind of like combined the best of both worlds for me, going to Herd Foundation and and interning for them. And they've been a blessing because some programs I looked into a couple others prior to Herd as well, they calculate into your hours, like you need time for the VA, which is a true, true aspect to it. Like you're gonna be going to appointments, making calls. Um, you know, some of my what the VA does now is they contract out appointments, and so I've been traveling a lot for some appointments, and so like herd has been very agreeable and flexible, and I just couldn't have been more blessed to be positioned with them.

Scott McLean:

So they were excited to have it see that everyone knows that listens to this podcast on a regular basis. This is how Haley and I met. Yes, is they are my herd, they are my literally my my foundation. Yeah, I have the one man one mic foundation, but because of herd is why I do this, why I do the one man one mic, yeah, why I do everything I do for veterans is because of Herd Foundation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're amazing.

Scott McLean:

They absolutely, they are literally part of my life. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I go every Friday.

Speaker 2:

You're part of theirs.

Scott McLean:

I try to be, because I mean, why would I walk away from that? You know what I mean? Like, why would I walk away from such an amazing organization with amazing, and it is the people.

Speaker 2:

It's the people.

Scott McLean:

The horses are everything.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes.

Scott McLean:

But the people, I know, they are in that very sweet spot where everything is right, all the right people are there. We all have that at one point in time in our life, in a job, uh, maybe at a base, maybe at a unit, yeah, or in a nonprofit or whatever. There's that one point where everything is just right. Yeah. The right people are there, and we're all moving together, and you go in and you love coming to work. Yeah, you love being with it. Yeah, and you try to hang on to that as long as you can.

Hayley Thomas:

Right.

Scott McLean:

And some places are very fortunate to with with you know withstand the storm because sometimes a disruptor might come in. You know, you never know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Um But Herd Foundation, yeah. No, they're amazing. I I I push them every chance I get because because I am what I am because of them.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, they changed my life. The VA changed my life, and Herd changed my life. So, and that's how we met. Um and so is your time up with Herd now?

Hayley Thomas:

You got a month left.

Scott McLean:

You got a month left, okay.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, it's it's hard to say that out loud.

Scott McLean:

But you'll never really go.

Hayley Thomas:

No, no, you're not getting rid of you. Nobody gets rid of me that time.

Scott McLean:

Why would you walk away from that place, number one? Like you might have to, but you can always come back. Like it's one of those things, right?

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, no, I I definitely want to keep a toe in the door, you know. Yeah, they're amazing and I just love it. And anytime I meet anybody, I'm like, hey, have you heard?

Speaker 2:

Is that yeah, yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

You know, because they're just it's awesome. And you know, with my background in horses as well, like I was a competitor there too. Like I competed in eventing, a three-day eventing sport. And, you know, for me, I would just pull my horses and go. Like, I got a mission, we gotta conquer this, we gotta conquer that, we gotta get ready for this uh competition. You know, I looked at my horses as like, you know, my partner, you know, I'd never stop to just evaluate the horse and I that day, you know, like where are they at? And I think back to so many blockages that I had with some of my horses, where like my trainer had to step in and like, you know, it just it coming to herd. I've learned so much about just the connection.

Scott McLean:

The connection is everything, yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

And you know, just seeing what it does for others as well and the stories, every story you hear is like captivating and it's just amazing. Like you would never think how it's done and how they move through it, like that it would have that much of like an effect on you. And it does. And so now I I'm like, man, if I had done, if I had known this, then I probably would have been somewhere else with my horse career. Cause I chased that bug for a long time. I got, like I said, my horse training and management degree. I wanted to start my own equine therapeutic center, but I just kept hitting these walls, and it was because like these anxiety blocks would come up for me, like, and um, so and it it was probably the same block I was getting with dog training too, like not breaking loose mentally. And uh, because I've worked with some phenomenal dog handlers who they just moved through it. It's like a second language, and you watch them and I've asked them, what how what was your childhood like? How did you get to where you're at? Like, what is it that's different about you, man? That you know, um, but uh I've seen some phenomenal horse riders and trainers too. It's like when it comes to animal, animal training, you gotta be able to break loose mentally. And I know um now working at Herd, that was like what the issue was for me. Like not approaching them the way we do at Herd. You know, now it's like I'm interested when I do get my because I'm gonna get a horse again for sure. I'm definitely gonna have horses again. I want my son to ride. Um, you know, how I'm gonna treat that horse differently and that relationship and nurture it differently and not look at them like a partner, you know.

Scott McLean:

So it's just I learned that with dogs. I learned the same thing. You know, when I I own dogs, and there's a difference between being a pet owner and then being, you know, a trainer. Yeah. And especially I learned I had the advantage of getting that degree in canine science, and I learned everything from that is an advantage. Yeah, from you know, uh canine psychology, how they think, how they you know, how they operate, uh, to you know, confirmation and structure and grooming. Like I learned everything.

Hayley Thomas:

See, I love that stuff.

Scott McLean:

And then as I worked with dogs, I understood the mistakes I made when I was just a pet owner.

Hayley Thomas:

I see.

Scott McLean:

You know? Okay, um, and you kind of look back and you cringe.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Right?

Hayley Thomas:

You're like, I've been cringing this horse.

Scott McLean:

But we don't know any better.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

You know, I I I learned to kind of put that off. I can compartmentalize that actually. Um I always want to think I did the right thing. You didn't know it. One of the first things I learned with Hurd was I was uh and I hadn't worked with horses. I had a friend, she does equine therapy, she's like a therapist up in Massachusetts. She used to tell me you you should probably go do this. And I and uh I'm so I I go to Heard and I I get in the arena and it's like I don't know, the week three uh or week two of Freedom Patch. And I'm with one of the facilitators, and uh I believe it was Nungay, Nungay Johnson, and uh who's the co-founder of Herd also. Um and the horse comes out to me. I think it was my my boy Fig who we just lost, but um and he just walks up to me and he stands in front of me and you know I I she's like, Don't pet him, don't pet him, because our our human natures we want to pet anything that comes near us, right? And he turns around and walks away. And she says, What do you think that was all about? I said, Well, I guess he doesn't like me. And she waits like five seconds, perfect timing, and she says, Well, why is it about you? Fuck me.

Hayley Thomas:

It's always like that. Holy shit.

Scott McLean:

Like I was like, uh you know, you don't have an answer for that.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And it was one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned in my life.

Hayley Thomas:

That's awesome.

Scott McLean:

In that in that little two-minute moment.

Hayley Thomas:

Why is it about you?

Scott McLean:

She just said, Why is it about you? And I was like, Oh shit.

Hayley Thomas:

That's the beauty of hers.

Scott McLean:

She's like, what if the horse is just the way he's playing with you, just the way he's trying to connect with you, or just you know, he's just kind of maybe he wanted to go off somewhere. Why do you think he doesn't like you? Yeah. Because I anthropomorphized. I put the human aspect into the animal.

Hayley Thomas:

I've done that a lot.

Scott McLean:

We all do it.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

We we all do it. But since I learned that and I worked it, I try to really distance myself from that. But yeah, in the horse world, I I hadn't understood. Uh-huh. Like I just kind of just like, oh, you hear people say, Oh, um, oh, my dog does that, and this, and people would say those things, right? Some of the veterans, because we don't know any better.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And it was, it was Nange that said to me, um, well, it's not really like a dog. Because this there's a big, there's a big difference here. And I was like, What's that? She said, Well, uh, dogs are predators, yeah, horses are prey. Yeah, they don't think the same. Another, like, oh shit. So now, now I learned that when I want to like present that I'm smart, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell people that. Well, you know, you gotta think that the dogs are predator and the horses prey. And they all go, oh my god, I'm like, yeah, I'm smart.

Hayley Thomas:

Well, because the girl.

Scott McLean:

I'm smart. I know what I'm I know what I'm talking about.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at me.

Scott McLean:

I know, I know. Yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

Bask in it.

Scott McLean:

It was an amazing, like, these are lessons that like these are things that you kind of take away from this working with the equine with the horses. This and there's so much more.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh, I know. There's just so much more that we could talk about.

Scott McLean:

That's a whole episode in itself.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah. And honestly, I couldn't have asked for a better place to do skill bridge at because of that aspect. I'm transitioning out of the military. I'm going from a high level of, you know, having to be on the go all the time, you know, waiting for the phone to blow up for whatever I, you know, I'm on call next, you know, um, living alone as a single parent in a fifth wheel. Like I was, you know, trying to save money out there.

Scott McLean:

So, yeah, let's talk about this. So, this transition, this is what I I wanted to get to. Um, so you you leave, you come here, and I know you and I had uh a couple of small conversations. I know they could have been a lot bigger.

Hayley Thomas:

Sure.

Scott McLean:

But um the the struggle.

Hayley Thomas:

It's been weird. It's been weird.

Scott McLean:

Bring us through it from the time you arrive.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh my. Uh first was just like uh it didn't feel real at first. It kind of felt like, oh, I'm on leave or something, you know. Um, but then um, you know, I moved right now I am supported by my family, you know. I moved back into their house for a little bit until I found a place, um, which has been awesome in the mental aspect of the load of being a parent by yourself. I mean, you're always on high alert as a single parent, a single female living in a trailer. Like I'm always like, you know, was always on alert. Um but the things that I didn't expect have been popping up for me big time. Um so the high alert thing is real for me right now. Um, but I've kind of settled since I got into my own place. I my parents live in this big, gorgeous house. Um, they have all these doors, all these long, tall windows. And every night I go to bed in the house, I would have to check every door. Twice, three times, especially one close to my bed, my bedroom at the time. And um I slept with always some a couple items of defense right near me at all times to grab and go. And there was a night where I knew I knew where everyone's sleeping. I knew where my mom's at, I know where my sister's at, I know where my niece is at, I know where my dad's at. And I go to sleep, uh, which, you know, sleep's been super, super hard for me. I wake up because the dog, they have a dog, and it was alert bark. She was doing. I know what an alert bark is, you know. And I went right into action. I have, you know, my weapon ready to go. I go out into I, you know, I'm looking at doors, checking doors. I'm I'm making my way to the middle of the house. It's pitch black, and I hear the noise that the dog, I see where the dog's looking, where the dog's barking, and I just do full-on call outs. Like I'm doing a whole call-out scenario. Stupid. Um, and I hear the noise. I hear a person. And I've done this call out, no one responded. So now I'm even more in dry like high drive. Like, why are they not fucking responding right now? I see them, they're cornered in the back of the house. I was doing such a loud call out because I woke up my mom and uh she comes out scared. What's going on? I'm like, there's a person in the house, back right corner. Like, I'm just going off. Like, and I I'm like, I go in a full call out again, and then in the most calmest, quietest voice, because this really grinded my gears. Uh, it was my sister. She's like, I'm peeing.

Speaker 2:

Oh.

Hayley Thomas:

She had moved, she'd gotten up from the bedroom she was in, walked across the house, gone to the bathroom. I guess the dog didn't know or see or hear. And so that's why the dog was alerting on her. And, you know, talking about it, I can kind of I'm not, I'm not fully there yet, because it really sent me in a high drive. Like I was, I was pissed. Uh, you know, first of all, if I you heard my call out the first time, why the fuck didn't you say something, you know? But it also like I just didn't realize why am I in so why am I so scared?

Scott McLean:

That's it. That's it, that's that's it right there.

Hayley Thomas:

Why am I so scared?

Scott McLean:

Yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

I was scared for my life.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. How much of the TBI plays into this, do you think?

Hayley Thomas:

Um I'm trying to get to the bottom of that, to be honest with you, because I'm having some weird things come up for me. Um you know, and I I did a full report on that because you know, I uh I want I It's just hard seeing you want to operate at such a capacity and you can't. You can't get there. You know? And then I'm having weird visions at night too, night like where I can't I'm it's so vivid, it's so real, it's so scary. I can't go I can't close my eyes, otherwise I'm gonna see that. And it's I've never I didn't have this stuff prior, to be honest with you. Um so I don't know what's coming up for me or why that's coming up for me.

Scott McLean:

Um do you ever think of hyper baric oxygen therapy?

Hayley Thomas:

No, I've not heard of that.

Scott McLean:

We're gonna talk off camera about that.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah. Yeah, so it's just weird little instances like that transitioning out. You have things like or like while at work, Rhonda loves to check in with me. She's uh you know my boss, and she just wants to check in with me because she genuinely cares about me.

Scott McLean:

And I she still checks in on me. Yeah, yeah, I bet she does. How is Scott?

Hayley Thomas:

And uh I'll just and then she gets busy, and so I'll wait all day. Rhonda wants to talk, Rhonda wants to talk, Rhonda wants to talk. And I'm like, what could it be? What did I do? Did I run? Did I finish this? Did I finish that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

And in actuality, she just wants, then she'll sit down and talk with me. I'm like, uh, waiting. What are we talking about? What I do, what I mess up on. And then it's just someone that cares about you.

Scott McLean:

That's it.

Hayley Thomas:

It's just someone that loves to hear how you're doing, wants to see you be successful. And that shift for me, it's like little things like that that you don't realize transitioning out, um, that are gonna come up for you. You know, I didn't prepare for these things mentally, you know, and uh nobody can. Nobody can. You don't know what's gonna come up for you. And I'm gonna tell like everyone that like you don't know what's gonna come up for you. I am not a combat vet, you know, I didn't do anything crazy, stood, you know, stood my post, did my time, had some weird experiences. Worked that dog, worked that dog, uh cute little dog. Um, but hot dang, like you just don't know what the because the military functions so different than the civilian sector, how they talk, how they move, the way things are like completed, you know, um, you're on high drive at all times. You don't realize what that trains you to do and think and feel on the normal, on the go go, and then so it's like when you come out of that and try to make your way into the civilian sector, it's like, man, people move differently, you know. So, yeah, it's just been a it's been an experience, and I'm still going through it. And I definitely am a big advocate for mental health and and support systems, so define what that is for you. You know, don't be afraid of mental health. Like, just because you pursue a therapist doesn't mean anything's wrong with you. I love therapy. Um plus they're supposed to listen to you and be on your side in that moment, so it's pretty cool. Like they gotta validate you to some extent. They're gonna tell you if you're kind of crazy, but uh joking, but still you should go to therapy.

Speaker 2:

But you're right, they're supposed to.

Hayley Thomas:

You know, I don't want to scare anyone away from therapy because to me, therapy is part of my support system. Yes, it's just like going to the gym. You know, you go to therapy, you go to the gym, you eat right, take care of yourself, and you kind of figure out what it looks like for you to operate at your top level.

Scott McLean:

Even if you're not in transition, yeah, my psychologists from the VA, I I I always say our relationship is is really like uh Tony Soprano and Dr. Melfi. I swear that is that's the relationship we have. I love her, she's an amazing person who has me absolutely figured out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And she's part of my support system. And I, you know, I'm I'm married, I have a family, I do this, I do that, but I've incorporated that into my life. Now, you know, sometimes the sessions get spread. You know, they I don't need to see her every month or whatever, but you know she's there.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

And that's the thing. Now, I don't know if you've been through this. I went through therapist, therapist, therapist. The VA, it's a quick turnover.

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Scott McLean:

And I and uh rightfully, understandably, because they see a lot of people in a day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

That's a lot, that's a title wave, right? And then um I end up fortunately with with a psychologist.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And uh Dr. Fox. I love her. I need her to shut up. Everybody was everybody should be. She's mine.

Hayley Thomas:

She's mine.

Scott McLean:

Um But I say, just like AA meetings, like the first AA meeting you go to might you might not like it. That doesn't mean all AA meetings are like that.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Find one that you like.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

And then go to it.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Find a therapist that you like.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Keep looking. You know, you know, they might assign you in. If you don't like that therapist, say, I I need somebody else.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Go to your primary care, go to the social worker, the VA social worker, say, I need somebody else. It's just not working for me. Yeah. You're not going to be insulted.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no.

Scott McLean:

But a lot of us, uh, just like if a doctor gives you an opinion.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

We take that as like that's platinum. Yeah, that is that is God's word.

Hayley Thomas:

Y'all, yeah.

Scott McLean:

And I learned this. I never really understood this because we do what we're told, because we look up to doctors. My first wife, God rest her soul, she passed away from breast cancer.

Hayley Thomas:

Wow, so sorry.

Scott McLean:

At one point, she was having an issue with swollen feet. She was on a lot of medications. Yeah. And the doctor's like, you need to take this, this, this, and this. Like seven or eight medications.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

So what she did on her own, and nothing was stopping the swollen feet. So what she did on her own. Um, there's like kind of a moral to the story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Um she started changing her meds on her own.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

She's like, I don't got anything to lose.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And she figured out different, you know, different combinations. And one of them, her feet stopped swelling up, and it was this medication. So we went back to the doctor who was amazing at what she did. The oncologist. And uh my wife kind of told her, she goes, Yeah, my phenotypes, how's your feet? Well, they're fine now. She says, How why? And she said, Well, I started doing this. And the and she stood back, the doctor stood back and said, That is amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

She said, I understand our position as doctors, and people think what we say is go, but we can be wrong.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

And she said, The fact that you did this on your own, you self-diagnosed.

Hayley Thomas:

Yep. Paid attention to your body.

Scott McLean:

She as she said, everybody should do that. Not you know, she waited though. She didn't do it right away. She so just like that with therapists.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah. Yep.

Scott McLean:

Find one that works for you.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

You know, and don't be afraid to say this one isn't working.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah. And also, too, like I've learned, you know, kind of like the five-minute roll of the movie, like give your therapists, you know, a couple sessions, at least two to three, because that first session is always kind of like a, you know, here's my mess. The QA. The QA. I've been through it. It can be difficult. It's always tough sitting on a new couch trying to re-explain all that crap. And uh highly recommend give them another shot. Because when you really break loose in that chair and you really can talk to them so freely and openly and transparently, it does a wonders for your mental health just to even talk.

Scott McLean:

Swallow that pride.

Hayley Thomas:

And just like a therapy, just like you know, when you're going to the gym and you want a coach to kind of refine your skills, refine, you know, the areas in which you're weak at. There are therapists like that too, that you can seek out to zero in on whatever it is. Like I, when I first got pregnant, I understood my role and my responsibility in that relationship I was in. And I decided once I was pregnant, my son, his life is innocent. I can go get help, and I will choose to do that now. So that way when he comes, I'm in a place of I am healed. And not a hundred percent, but I'm moving differently, I'm thinking differently. And so I did. I I researched a trauma specialized therapist, and I learned tools that I now use every day um to process my emotions and my feelings and what I'm going through. And I sat on that couch with her for two and a half years, sometimes twice a week, sometimes once a week, sometimes pr sp um sporadically, depending on everything. But she was my support system and she helped me, she saw me at every stage from brand new pregnant to pop I pop the baby out, and now I'm a full-fledged single mama doing it. And she watched me in a lot of different seasons, you know, going through what it was like to be a pregnant female in the military. That's crazy. Uh, postpartum female in the military, crazy too. Um, you know, and then to work in a man's world, like that was part of my support system, but also, like I said, I was driven there to work on those personal issues and areas. I was like, enough's enough for me, and it's time to take hold of my my areas that have to be kind of fine-tuned because I do want to be married one day. I want to I want to find a husband, you know, that I can operate on his level from a healed whole place. And I knew like I at least Or he can operate on your level. That too. Yeah, you know, that too. Equally yoked, you know. And uh so I share that like transparently because you know, it's been a blessing in my life and um it's helped me grow. You know, I've I've slowed down a lot, but now in this transitional period, I'm having issues. So uh with Skillbridge, you know, Skillbridge, what's neat about is like you can do Skillbridge anywhere and everywhere. But because I'm not near my local duty station, I've lost access to my primary care provider, my aunt, my therapist, you know, everybody I had built in. It's not that I'm not covered anymore medically. They don't tell you this. There is a few, you know, holes in the program which I found is that you like just like when you PCS, you have to switch over from one um, you know, side of the house to the other in TriCare. Um, you have to do that. But because I'm not at a military installation and I'm on Skillbridge, but I'm on active duty uh TRICARE Prime, like it's kind of hard getting more looped in with the doctors down here just yet, you know? And so I've had a little harder, I lost my referral for my mental health, um, moving from one side of the country to the next. And so uh that's been a little bit of delay on why I'm not in therapy at the moment, um, but definitely gonna be back on the agenda just to have that support system.

Scott McLean:

Good.

Hayley Thomas:

Mm-hmm.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, let's if you don't mind, I will remind you from time to time. Please. How are you doing? Yeah, what are we doing?

Hayley Thomas:

Please, yeah, yeah. Check in on me, man. Like, I need that. Everyone does.

Scott McLean:

You're a good person, Haley. You're a good person.

Hayley Thomas:

Thank you.

Scott McLean:

Um so what's the future look like now? What what what's your vision of the future?

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, the future. God is good, I'll tell you that. But um, so I I landed a job. I don't want to speak about it just yet.

Scott McLean:

There you go. That's all we need to know. Okay. Good, good.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, but when it's ready, I have a feeling you and I are gonna be talking again. Um, but yeah, I'm also going for my master's degree. Um I'm gonna go towards a business administrative executive master's program. Um, have the application in and waiting approval. Um, and you know, working this new job. It's gonna, you know, I've found that within me I want to work for a nonprofit with veterans. Um and so to get to that road, I'm I'm gonna work hard to do that one day. Um, but I want to also lead. I want to lead people. I want to interact with the veterans, boots on the ground with the veterans. And so, you know, I've just been so blessed to see what it's like at herd and then, you know, see what other nonprofits are doing. And, you know, I just opening my eyes to what's out there, and there's a lot of people who care. There's a lot of people who care.

Scott McLean:

You're blessed to have this exposure because I didn't and I I mean my my listeners and viewers are probably sickened me saying it, but I I didn't know like it took me 20 years to find this world. Yeah, it's an amazing world.

Hayley Thomas:

It's so neat for veterans.

Scott McLean:

Yeah, it's just really like it's never ending.

Hayley Thomas:

Nobody, nobody blinks an eye when you ask for help. Like they they find a way, you know, that someone knows somebody or they refer, they know somebody who knows somebody.

Scott McLean:

Exactly. Exactly. That's and that's what it is. Yeah, and we'll talk after this because I think I have someone that you might want to talk to.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. So it's always it's just uh it's overwhelming. And even prior to me joining, to be honest with you, like my career to me is like I'm thankful, you know, I learned a lot. There's a lot of weird things that have come up for me, but also like I've been humbled, you know. I got to work with amazing people, selfless people. Um, but my whole drive for veterans has always just come from my childhood. Uh my dad's a veteran, uh combat vet. Um deployed many times after 9-11 hit. I always would say, like, 9-11, my dad went to war, and then my mom and I went to war. You know, like it destroyed my family. Destroyed. And I see the sacrifices that were made at home by him when he wasn't even at home. Like what and then to watch a he's a big man. He's like you, he's big, big, tall, strong man, and he came back broken. You know, uh, IED hit destroyed his whole life. And uh in doing so, I watched a man who sat at the head of the table and led his family. And we knew as little girls, like you go to your dad for permission, like we tried to ask mom, but you know, but then when he came back, little weird tendencies like so. Back then you get deployed, and you know, they'd have to wait in line to make a phone call. You know, everybody had to wait and turn to make a phone call. There was no FaceTime and all that. FaceTime, no cell phones, writing letters, you know, writing letters. Um, and us little girls were busy with our Lives and we didn't realize how important it was, so we didn't really write dad back, but he wrote a lot. Uh, and I remember the call, the phone ringing in the middle of the night, and mom talking on the phone, and then he would the phone would just disconnect. But nonetheless, I say, like, we learned quick be to how to work our mom over for permission to go to dances, to go hang out with so and so, like, um, and he lost his role in the family as the man of the house, you know, like it was just a weird shift, you know. And for him, I think he came home, he lost his ability to go to work. He's a hundred percent PT and um ability to lead his family, uh, purpose in life. I mean, he was a soldier, you know, but now he, you know, got um medically forced retired from a different generation, too. Very different.

Scott McLean:

We didn't grow up with that, like yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah. So seeing all of that is my drive. Like, I want to be with the veterans, you know, with the horses. And I wrote out a whole business plan for this. It's it's in my binders.

Scott McLean:

But um I see, I see a a nonprofit in your future. Like your nonprofit.

Hayley Thomas:

One day I'm gonna be back here telling you about it.

Scott McLean:

And I would love that. I would like nothing. That would be the greatest interview ever.

Hayley Thomas:

That would be cool. You'll do it. I know. I know God is good.

Scott McLean:

You'll know when the time is.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah. So right now, though, I'm excited about this next opportunity and the people I'm working with and um what I'll be doing. It'll make me very dynamic, very versatile. And uh, you know, I'm just excited that I I've kind of found like what my strengths are because of the military. Like things I did, I um a collateral I had overseas. Um, looking back, I'm like, I was running a nonprofit.

unknown:

Yeah.

Hayley Thomas:

And I didn't realize that. Like, and I did it well. Like, I was great at it, I'm not gonna lie to you. And so, you know, I see these weird things. I'm like, oh, I had to go through that, you know. And you know, K9 was amazing because I was humbled by the people I got to work with and stand beside and and show up with and certify with. Um, and they taught me a lot of lessons too as a leader. And, you know, I'm just thankful for it all. It's it was it I had to learn what I had to learn, and I had to grow too. Like there's a lot of areas of improvement I had. Um so I just think mostly it was just because too. I at the end it was I was didn't want to do a man's job anymore. So that was more it was more of a personal thing for me. It was getting out.

Scott McLean:

So I say this a lot and I mean it because it's it's it rings true in my life, and I believe I am not alone in this, but everything happens for a reason. People get sick of me saying that, but I truly, truly live by that. Yeah, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, and sometimes the universe takes its time letting you know why. Yeah. This struggle happened, yeah. Or this traumatic event happened, or the universe will let you know eventually.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Or some people will say God will let you know.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah. You know, yeah.

Scott McLean:

Uh and I can say that too. I am not, you know, of that not oh no, God, no. It could be God, it could be the universe.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

But you will find out eventually why.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, why? Why did I have to go through that? Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Yeah. Yeah. And out of everything bad comes something good.

Hayley Thomas:

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

Scott McLean:

Another that I another model that I live by.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott McLean:

Because it's true.

Hayley Thomas:

Yes. Yeah.

Scott McLean:

It's true.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh, yeah. I mean, getting pregnant was unexpected, and it was from a relationship that wasn't ordained by the Lord Himself, and I know that he convicted me of that. But in doing so, um, that blessing has now called me to my purpose. There you go. You know, I mean, God always works everything for the the good of the kingdom. And I've seen that. Like even when we come out of step, when we're not marching to, you know, the word of God and we're falling to our flesh, you know, he can still use that. And I, you know, I know I I have a lot of testament to that in my area. I mean, I got blood on my hands, you know. It's just uh I've learned how God can use that, you know, and uh he's just been so faithful to me. And this season I've had to truly um, it's been a struggle, you know, because as a single parent, I don't have a man at home to help me and rest on. And I honor that in my heart. Like I understand so deeply within my head and my heart why God designed the family the way he did, and why he calls a man to be a husband and to be a father, and like it's an it's the that type of role. There's no shoe nobody can fill that role. A man is created the way he is. God was so strategic about that. And so I say all that to say, like, I came outside of his design, and you know, I I had a baby with a man that wasn't for me, that he would never have for me, you know. Um and you know, now it it's hard. It's hard being a single mom. Single mom life is not the way it was meant to be. Um there are days where I need a husband, I need a man to do certain things, but I gotta get it done. I gotta get it done. And so I do. But now I'm I'm okay. I'm gonna wait on God. I just find myself though sometimes, especially in a position like this that I'm in, transitioning out of the military, like a little more frustrated because I kind of he is my co-parent. You know, I go to him for everything. He has provided for everything, but I'm like, gosh darn it, I wanted to see it go this way. Um, but again, he's doesn't always work that way, doesn't work that way.

Scott McLean:

And you know what? That that little boy is gonna grow up to be a good man because of you, not because of anything the father figure or anything. My mom raised three boys. I think she raised me pretty good.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh, yeah, she did.

Scott McLean:

I idolized my mom.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

So and I try to think I'm a good man.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, you are, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Scott McLean:

Um, but it's all because of her.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

My father was in the picture. Great guy, loved my dad. Great relationship with my mom.

Hayley Thomas:

She really did.

Scott McLean:

So your your little boy's gonna grow up to be a good man.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah.

Scott McLean:

I mean because of his mom.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, yeah. I I pray. I'm praying over him daily.

Scott McLean:

You know, doing what you're doing, everything will work out for you.

Hayley Thomas:

It will, it will. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, he's a really cool dude.

Scott McLean:

There you go. Well, Haley, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you. I I know we we were supposed to do this and it got canceled and moved.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I apologize about that.

Scott McLean:

Nah, my time is your time. Yeah, whatever. I say this to all my guests, whatever works for you. Yeah, you know, yeah. Um, I appreciate you sharing. Uh, I know it's that you, you know, it's kind of uh emotional at points, but I appreciate you because what you said probably helps some. I'm sure it did help someone.

Hayley Thomas:

Well, you know, even if it's just one person.

Scott McLean:

That's all that's all. Yeah. You can you ask for more than that, right? I mean, if I didn't do it, there might be a woman out there that a young woman that has this and goes, oh fuck, she did it. I can do this.

Hayley Thomas:

Oh, yeah, you can do it, girl. Like you can do it. I've I've served alongside some really strong, admirable women, and they get it done. And they lead and they conquer and they grow through the ranks. It can be done. Yeah. It can be done. It's just decided within my heart wasn't for me, and that's all there is to it.

Scott McLean:

That's it. All right. Well, I'm gonna do my outro and we'll talk a little after that.

Hayley Thomas:

Yeah, thank you for having me on here. I hope to come again soon.

Scott McLean:

My pleasure. You certainly will. Well, we built another bridge today. This was a transition bridge, and that that's those are tough bridges, but we got through this one today. Uh Haley's on a great path. She's gonna have a great, great finish after this. Everything will be fine. Um well, again, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. If you liked it, share it. If you didn't like it, well, thanks for watching and listening for an hour and seven minutes, eight minutes. I appreciate that. And uh, as I always say, you will see me and hear me next week.

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Scott McLean

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