The VetsConnection Podcast

Ep. 80 - What Changes When Veterans Trust A Free Money Tool

• Scott McLean • Episode 79

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We talk with Andrea Sok about what a nonprofit fractional CMO actually does, how she prices and scopes the work, and why boards often need a reality check grounded in data and comparable benchmarks. Then Blake Allison walks us through Lifecents and Vetcents, a free, veteran-focused financial wellness toolkit built for trust, privacy, and real outcomes without selling anything to users. 
• fractional CMO work as executive-level nonprofit marketing leadership without full-time cost 
• smooth transitions during leave coverage through overlap and clear handoffs 
• pricing based on time, deliverables, team structure, and budget realities 
• board dynamics and how proof and peer examples reset expectations 
• blurred line between marketing and development for fundraising events and sponsorship materials 
• warning signs of broken nonprofit marketing, including doing nothing or repeating stale tactics 
• founder-led growth challenges, especially letting go and prioritizing highest ROI actions 
• storytelling as a core marketing lever, shaped by audience and delivery channel 
• LifeSense as a digital financial coach focused on outcomes, not “butts in seats” education 
• VetSense tailored guidance for veterans, with trusted resources and no monetization of participants 
• partnerships that add credibility, including VA-connected pathways and veteran-serving nonprofits 
• success story of delaying a home purchase to improve credit and save tens of thousands 
• web-based access at vetsense.org, quick intake, personalized coach report, and crisis resources 
Check them out once again, Vetcents.org 
For the nonprofits, soakinfluencerpr.com. 
If you like this, share it. 


Like, Subscribe and Share. If you have comments or suggestions email us at: vetsconnectionpodcast@gmail.com. You can also find the video of this podcast on our YouTube Channel - Vetsconnection Podcast

Welcome And Guest Introductions

Scott McLean

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. I'm recording this episode from my home studio, as you'll see, and I always say I really like my home studio better than my I have to go to studio. That's traveling. This is walking. And I I like that better. But uh yeah, thanks for joining me. My guests this week are Andrea Sok. Andrea is a nonprofit fractional CMO. I know. We're gonna get to that, the first question I asked to it. Okay, what's that? Uh and along with Allison is Blake. I'm sorry, Andrea. I knew I was gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that myself because I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot, right? It's it's called trying too hard at times. Andrea Soc and Blake Allison. Blake is the founder of Life Sense. Uh, and under Life Sense, there is uh a part called uh vet sense, and we're gonna get into that, and it's relative to veterans, so of course that's why they're here. So, all right, with all that said, how you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_00

Great, fantastic.

What A Fractional Nonprofit CMO Does

Scott McLean

You all right? Uh aside from that little uh mess up, I don't care. I've been doing this for a while. I think I can afford to mess up every once in a while. But I probably do it more than I'm supposed to. I don't edit a lot, so we go with it. All right, let's let's get right into this, Andrea. Yes, um, explain to the audience what a fractional, a nonprofit, fractional CMO is.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. I like to think of it as your best kind of part-time hire. So nonprofits are notorious for having limited budgets and trying to always do more with less. So fractional, whether it's a fractional CMO, fractional CFO, or fractional anything, you're getting the executive level executive level expertise at a fraction of the cost. So they're generally working with you on a part-time basis, and it could be that they work so many hours a week, or that they are filling in on a short-term uh you know, finite amount of time. So I've worked with nonprofits where their head of marketing and communications was on medical leave. And so they need somebody to come in and work with them for you know that period of time, or a parental leave, or maybe they're hiring for a new person and they don't want to leave the position open uh while they go through this long hiring process, um, but they don't want to commit to somebody that they're not gonna hire full time. So it's uh me coming in, working with you uh on your marketing communications on a part-time basis or a short-term basis, and doing more than just uh what a what I would say a junior hire does. So you can bring on somebody junior for probably the same amount of time, same amount of money, and they're working with you full-time, but they're just executing. And we're talking about strategy, we're talking about long-term planning. Uh, so I'm bringing that to you at a fraction of the cost.

Scott McLean

So let me ask you this you say uh my nonprofit has a marketing person, we'll say you're like a junior social media person or something, right? And they go on a maternity leave or they go on a long vacation, and I bring you in now. What how does that transition into what they've already been doing as opposed to you coming in and like do you get the background on what they've been doing and try to and how does that affect when they come back? Like, how is those how are those two transitions?

SPEAKER_00

Transition period. Yeah, ideally, uh so I I recently worked with a nonprofit in Texas, and uh the person went on uh parental leave, she was having a baby, and so I was able to get in and work with her before she left, and then we overlap for a week when she came back. So we did ideally we'd have those bookends where we could work together, so everything is seamless, and you as a CEO or anyone in the nonprofit doesn't know that there was that transition. Um, that's not always the case. Again, people go on emergency medical leave and the position's vacant for a couple of weeks, and I've come in and kind of just have to hunt and pick and figure things out. I've done it both ways, but ideally, yes, we'd have some overlap transition period where I pick up with that person before they leave and then hand off when they come back.

Pricing, Scope, And Setting Expectations

Scott McLean

Now your service isn't free, I'm assuming that's that's that's that would be crazy. Uh how do you price it? Is it by the organization?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we I really like to find out what their needs are. Um, how much time are we looking at? Also, what is the structure of the organization? I've I've worked with nonprofits who have you know 50 employees and nonprofits that are three employees. So um, is there a junior marketing person that I'm gonna be supervising? Is it, do I need to bring my team? You know, I also work with um, you know, graphic designers, video people. Um, I can bring that with me. And so how much of those resources are you gonna be using? So I I like to sit down with folks, find out honestly, what's your budget? We could always work something out. Um, it's gonna be based on time and what type of deliverables you need. Um, and there's always gonna be people. I just uh worked, we I just onboarded a new client, and you know, it's always the what if. Well, what if we go out of scope? I don't want to, you know, be in debt because we know it out of scope. I always work with people. Uh I've before starting my business, I worked in nonprofit communications and marketing for 15 years. So I've been on the other side and I know how strapped budgets are, especially marketing budgets. They're always the first to be cut, to be downsized. So I understand um and I want to be as helpful as possible. Um, so I always work with people. You know, give me what you're looking for, and I can tell you what we can do and how much time it's gonna take. Um, and really help set those expectations. And sometimes it's also working with the CEO who then needs to go back and explain that to the board. Because it might uh unrealistic expectations of what can happen in a short amount of time. Uh and I like to equip the CEO with uh or the executive director with any and all information to help you do your job better.

Working With Boards And Fundraising Teams

Scott McLean

Because as a a nonprofit founder and CEO, boards can be very difficult sometimes.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

Scott McLean

But understanding that it they are in there, most of them, for the benefit of the nonprofit. They are the they are the the gatekeepers to everything. So uh have you ever had to go in, I'm sure you have, to talk to a board yourself and say, hey, listen, you know, this is uh this is what I do, and I think it will benefit you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, showing uh I I often find that uh boards like to see what other nonprofits have done. So I'll often come in with evidence from other organizations that I worked with, whether it's realistic budgets based on the organization's size and who they're serving, to you know what you can expect in event growth or what you can expect here based on, again, similar organizations of similar size. Because you always have the board member who's you know finds this random nonprofit that has you know budget five times the size of yours. And why aren't we doing this?

Scott McLean

Oh, you know my board then. You know my board of directors. Geez, that's what a small world.

SPEAKER_00

You know, why aren't we in the New York Times every week? You know, it's you have to kind of bring people down to reality sometimes and uh by showing basically the proof is in the pudding. This is what I'm seeing in other organizations. Give and I give them the name of the organization here. If you want to call the executive director yourself, you can like they're call vet sense. Yeah, I mean nonprofits is a great community because we do work together so much, and so you know, I can connect you with a nonprofit in another state that's doing the same thing, uh, that's running to the same challenges, so that you can talk about how these solutions work for you. So I always try to bring uh again, equip the executive director, CEO. I'll sit in on a board meeting, I'll give my perspective and I'll come with the data and the evidence. So it's again not just my opinion. I'm showing you what's really happening in the market.

Scott McLean

And budget is always a big deal with the board. It seems to be the number one.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

Scott McLean

Yes. So what what about for say the nonprofit is going for a big fundraiser? Now I know there's a difference between what you do and what fundraisers do. There's a specific role for them. Have they ever kind of crossed over to you? Like, hey, we're having this, can you help us with this?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's definitely a blurred line between the development position or department and what I do. And and rightfully so, we should work together. So that's one of the first questions I ask when I'm in the interview process or working through an RFP is what is the fundraising department setup? You know, um, if we don't have anyone who's going out to make the ask, then any materials and things I do are it's just gonna sit there. Um we need uh that staffing and and in that direction. Um, but definitely I I work together. I'm I'm working with an organization right now. They have a fractional development person. Um, so again, it's a small organization. They only have about five employees. So I'm fractional, the development person is fractional, um, and we have an event coming up in September. And so we're working very closely. Um, she's going out and making the asks, I'm doing all the marketing materials for the event. Um, there is an event committee of volunteers, so there is some support there, but we're in lockstep on what is our message out to the public, to potential sponsors, to people we want to attend the event. Um, and I'm equipping her with all the materials and items that she needs to go out and secure those sponsorships. Uh so it's definitely a partnership.

Scott McLean

And you go in with a kind of a contract situation, yes.

SPEAKER_00

From this point to this point, and then yeah, and want again, want to make it as seamless as possible. So if there needs to be a transition, um, I I was working with a nonprofit in Florida and I knew from the beginning because I was working with an interim CEO that um I would be eventually hiring the person that would take this role on full-time. They wanted to bring somebody on full-time, but they wanted to go through a thoughtful process to hire somebody. So I worked for them for about six months on a fractional basis, and I eventually hired the person that now works there full-time. Um, so there was, you know, a definite transition and there was a definite. And when I signed the contract, I knew it would be six months. And it was, you know, give or take a month or so. We were right around there when we were able to get the person hired. Um, uh, but there's always, there's always a contractual arrangement. I know what I'm getting into, and I want the nonprofit to be clear on um, you know, how how often I'm there and for how long.

Signs Nonprofit Marketing Is Failing

Scott McLean

Gotcha. What are the signs that a nonprofit's marketing is broken? Gotta be blunt with you. Oh wow. How long do you have? No. It's a podcast. I can do the Joe Rogan style. We can go on. Oh, it's the wild west.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's almost like you know, the broken is one way to describe things. There's also people who just don't do anything.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, they've survived for so long on the generosity of maybe a handful of donors. And now those people have either, you know, turned their support elsewhere or they want to do more things and they can't because they are limited by their budget. And it's like, oh, well, maybe we should do some marketing. Um, so a lot of times when I come in, they haven't really done anything. Uh, and it's not that it's broken, it just never started. They didn't know where to, they didn't know where to begin. And so we're really building from the ground up. Um, other organizations, the marketing has been, you know, a person hitting play on something once a week, and it's just never changed. And it's not evolving with the marketplace, it's not evolving with what donors want. And uh they need somebody with fresh eyes to come in and say, here's some recommendations. A lot of times it's especially founder. I mean, no offense, founder-led nonprofits, yeah, they have the blinders on and it's hard for them to see how their organization is being received in the in the public.

SPEAKER_01

And Scott, did we just get called out?

Scott McLean

You know, I I I'm the host, I'm not here to argue.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's their baby, understandable.

Scott McLean

Right. So let me ask you this on that note, how many founders have you come across that are or have been afraid to grow? Like, I'm good with this, but I need a little more, but I'm really good with that now.

SPEAKER_00

Like bring you in for something really specific, and then we'll have the conversation of have you ever thought about this or doing this? And there's a lot of hesitancy. Uh, for sure. I or I would say the the biggest problem with founder-led organizations is that they want to grow, but it's hard to let go to let that growth happen.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and and change is hard. Change is hard for everyone. And so that process can take longer, I have found, with founder-led organizations than with other organizations.

Scott McLean

So my situation was probably the opposite of that. Like, I was go, go, go, go, go. And my board was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, that's a lot. It's you're doing it, and and what I do does not really need a lot of people. It's me basically dealing with the veterans and putting my time in. But I had this and like that with the VA and this and that, and they were like, yo, time out. Like, that's too much.

SPEAKER_00

Too many irons in the fire.

Scott McLean

It's too much. Yeah, you're gonna burn out, you gotta slow down, you have all the right ideas. So, how do you deal with a founder like me that's like, okay, how about if we keep doing this? And did you ever run into somebody like you really gotta just calm down a little?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's about prioritizing what will have the most ROI in that amount of time. Right. I mean, I could give you a laundry list of things that we could do. Yeah, again, you don't have the budget and you don't have the manpower. So uh let's prioritize what's gonna have the most impact in the shortest amount of time. So a lot of times I will help people weed through that wish list, you know, and there'll always be the uh, you know, executive director that comes up with these random thoughts, you know, what if we did this? What and I I love your thought. Let's pin this for when, you know, six months when we have more budget and more time, because this is not going to move the needle as much as these five other things that we're doing.

Scott McLean

So you're really, really good at dealing with multiple types of personalities. That's what I gather from all of that.

SPEAKER_00

You're really good at dealing with multiple types of multiple personalities, and in many ways it's therapy for for all of us.

Scott McLean

Uh, how can a nonprofit get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00

They can reach out to me. Uh, my website is just on the screen, soaks soak influencerpr.com, and my email is just Andrea at soakinfluencerpr.com. Again, also free consultation. I always storytelling is my passion. I know it's your passion as well. I love just to sit down with folks, do a quick zoom like this, tell me your story. We can always walk away with a few things that you can do right from the get-go, um, whether we work together or not. Let's just Yeah.

Scott McLean

Well, that's interesting because so my fundraisers, I'm I'm a very young nonprofit, um, and my fundraisers are based on uh veteran storytelling events, right? And uh it's very hard to sell that, it's not dynamic, it's not like a big 5k or a golf tournament or you know, something like that. I've found that those are things that are hard to get people to go to because storytelling is so underrated in everything we do. We tell stories every day, and I don't want to start going down that rabbit hole because my viewers know I will not shut up about that. But um, yeah, storytelling is extremely important. Now, how important so you always say these nonprofits, tell them your story. Your story will sell. Tell them your story. How true is that? Like, how often does that really like an effective story? How far does it go, I should ask?

SPEAKER_00

It depends on how it's packaged. So I I I would say there are everyone has a story to tell.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There any organization that I've worked with, even if I've I've come in and they say, you know, our our business or our nonprofit is just we got we have no stories. Like let's just throw the data at them. Everyone has a story to tell. Uh, but because of the way our society is set up now and you're just being inundated from every angle, you have to really be careful about how you tell that story. And we want to look at, again, who your donors are, your potential donors, your potential supporters. How do they want to receive that story? Is it an intimate in-person gathering? Is it a video that's shared on social media? Is it an email? Who's who's doing this storytelling? Um, we can take one story and package it 10 different ways. And so really thinking through how do we want to tell that story and what is the method and the delivery? And and we might need to try a couple different things before something you know really resonates with people.

Scott McLean

Right. Now I was gonna transition into Blake, but I know we he seems we lost Blake. Seems to have disappeared. So let's let's kind of start that transition now then. Um, so you met Blake through what you do with Vets.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So I have uh, like I said, I have a background in working with nonprofits. Um, several of them have been large military support organizations, so very familiar with the community. Um and I started working with Blake at LifeSense with his business. And um what I love about LifeSense is it's definitely a mission-driven company. And VetSense is one aspect, but he works with a lot of nonprofits as well, and really knows how to uh work down into the specific audience and what their their issues are and the problems are. And and speak of the devil, he's back.

Scott McLean

And he's back. He sent me an email. I'm coming back. Exclamation point. I love that. I'm coming back. I I I was thinking, I go, I don't know what just happened. I I told him I was gonna talk to Andrea first. Maybe I should have talked to Blake first. I'm like, I thought that's all good, buddy.

SPEAKER_01

I had to grab lunch.

SPEAKER_00

She's still in the show. She's still talking so much. That's probably what I think about every time we have a meeting.

Scott McLean

She's still talking. So, Blake, I was just uh talking to Andrea, not Alison, right? Andrea, um, about how you two met and how this this came about. Uh, I was I was kind of uh um I I'm always pleasantly surprised when they say, Hey, I have somebody else that we can bring on. And Andrea wanted to bring you on. So and I think he's frozen. He's got the big smile on. He's got he's frozen.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, we can hear you.

Scott McLean

We can hear you, yeah. Yeah, I apologize.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know what the tech issues are today. Not a problem. There we go.

Scott McLean

There we go. There we go.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so basically, I just I finished saying how you're my favorite clients, and then that's exactly what she said, yeah. And uh you work with somebody's recording, Andrea. Yeah, that's in perpetuity. Um, and that Life Sense works with so many nonprofits. So we you know, I basically teed up at your mission-driven business model, but we didn't talk about vet sense yet. So we you know, we relaunched vet sense a couple years ago, but really Blake is is the brainchild the mastermind. I'm here just to support him, but he is the mastermind behind vet sense and all the great things that's doing for the veteran community. So I'll I'll let you speak now, Blake.

Why LifeSense Exists For Financial Wellness

Scott McLean

Yeah, so first off, uh let's hear how you started LifeSense, because that's the origin of vet sense, correct?

SPEAKER_01

Correct. Um so and and again, I apologize for the the choppiness on this uh video, but um so I started LifeSense 21 years ago. Um I I had uh done a lot of work in the financial services community. I I lived abroad, worked abroad, in Germany and Istanbul, Turkey, uh across here in the US. I thought there was a lot of innovation in financial services. New products were coming to market to presumably help consumers do better with their money. But what I saw consistently did not matter how much innovation there was with in the financial services space. Consumers' baseline knowledge never changed. And so people's understanding of how money works never changed. So it did not matter how innovative financial services companies were or the products they brought to market. If people didn't understand the basics, all this advanced stuff wasn't going to help. And so, um, long story short, I just I felt like um there was a need to help people improve their financial well-being to help them make better decisions, to understand things in a different way, to develop the skills. And then, you know, all those things for the purposes of you know reaching their goals and also helping them identify goals, you know, because it's it's kind of hard to if you don't know where you're going, any direction is gonna do, I guess, according to the the rabbit in Alice in Wonderland, is that right? Um so I I just you know, and and also I saw how at the time, 21 years ago, this idea of financial health and wellness didn't did not really exist. It was all around financial literacy. Um, and I'm like, well, that's great, but when you're measuring financial literacy and financial education by, you know, pardon the expression, but butts and seats, how many people show up for um a seminar? Um you have an hour-long presentation, and somebody from a bank is gonna come in and they're coat and tie in a community that you know they they they may not fully understand what needs are, and they put up a PowerPoint in an hour, they go through budgeting and debt management and credit score and retirement and insurance and buying a home all within an hour, and people walk away and be like, oh, that was interesting, but then there's no outcomes, there's no follow-up, there's no impact. And so I just saw there's this huge gap in meeting people where they are, providing people with personalized experiences, providing a scalable approach. And that's where you know there wasn't really any technology serving this market at the time. And and I'm not a technologist, but I had an idea. Uh Lifense was born. Um, and you know, 21 years later, you know, here we are. And um ironically, today we're literally launching the largest release of the updated product since the original launch. So it's and we've had a lot of iterations over the past you know, 15, 20 years, but this is by far the the the most the biggest leap we've taken between versions. Um but but where we are now is we we have you know what is LifeSense? Maybe I can answer that question too. So we now have this online web-based app that allows people to come in and get personalized, it's basically a digital financial coach, a personalized financial guidance. We're not providing advice, we're not selling products, but we're helping um meet people where they are. And and like even a better analogy is we're we're we are a primary care physician for financial health. So much like we go to our doctors for our physical health, and there are certain um underlying metrics, you know, uh, what's your weight, what's your height, what's your BMI, blood pressure, heart rate, et cetera, there are equivalent baseline metrics that we need to know about someone's financial health. But then also you might go into your doctor with symptoms and be like, you know, I I'm I I have chest pains. Well, that doctor is gonna want to ask enough questions to know if that's heartburn or a heart attack.

Scott McLean

Because if I went and said I have I have checkbook pain, right? That's the equivalent.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, interestingly, that you know, the number one cause of stress is our financial issues. Yes. Number one cause of health issues is stress. So if you if we solve financial issues, you reduce financial stress, reducing stress, which is helping physical health, reduces rates of divorce. Unfortunately, in the military community, veterans have a very high rate of suicide, largely stemming from financial stress. So this is a super important issue for everybody, but probably more so for veterans and in the military community.

VetSense Mission And Veteran Connection

Scott McLean

So let's transition into that. Um what is your connection to the veteran world?

SPEAKER_01

So I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, uh, right next door to Norfolk Naval, uh the Norfolk Naval Base. Um, my dad, my biological father uh was a naval aviator, flew uh 20 plus years, A6 uh intruder, more hours in an A6 than anybody else. Um so pretty, pretty cool stat there. But my parents did divorce when I was young. Still, all my friends, neighbors, the community was all you know, military, military community. So kind of born and raised. So it's always been near and dear my to my heart, you know. So um, and I've I've also seen both sides of the equation um in terms of you know what it looks like for you know single parents, um, you know, with kids in the military community, and you know, or or you know, uh a spouse is deployed and it feels like people single for for long-term design. And so uh it just you know veterans, uh service members, families, neighbors, uh it's always been part of my life.

Scott McLean

So that's when how how did vet sense come about? What was the what was the the mindset? What was the mission and how was it implemented?

SPEAKER_01

So if we if we take um kind of what I rambled on about life sense in terms of how we're that primary care physician and we're helping people get that personalized guidance, I saw also that there is a huge gap in helping veterans in the military community. Um and and so um uh Matt Carey, um wonderful, wonderful, wonderful gentleman that was the former um director of the DC, Washington, D.C. Office of Veterans Affairs. I was introduced to him and we put our heads together and came up with this idea of expanding LifeSense to um having veteran focused. And so we co-created um the content and the user experience for veterans um, you know, through partnerships, you know, DC uh DCOVA uh being one. Um, but really, so when somebody goes into LifeSense, it is tailored for the veteran and military community because we are trying to raise awareness and say, look, there are a lot of benefits, a lot of programs uh available to you that you may not be aware of, but we first have to do that diagnostic like the doctor does before we refer you to that specialist, which are those programs and services and benefits.

Scott McLean

So that's a little difficult, I would assume, because a lot of people avoid looking at their finances or avoid addressing their finances. It's just it's it's an amazing uh uh thing that people just I don't want to see it. Like I'm guilty of it in a certain sense. I don't want the receipt when I go to the ATM. I don't want to look at my balance, you know, like it's on even the lowest level, right? Uh so getting somebody to do this is it's a big jump for them, right? It can be for sure. And so, okay, they're hopefully they're ready to address it at that point. Now I see about this a five-minute assessment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so we start, we um we start off with a uh an initial assessment because we want a baseline to understand who someone is. We we we don't want this to be to be prescriptive, we don't want this to be one size fits all. So we need to know something about you, and so we have that very brief initial assessment that then allows us to start personalizing the experience. But I think what happens is people see that, like, hey, this really is meant for me. They really understand me, and so they will continue to use it because they are getting value. And and we are very big, you know, if you're gonna spend even five minutes with us, we're gonna want to return value to you versus just asking you a bunch of questions. And so there's there's a lot of ways we can do that um to the user experience, but also are we tying this, you know, to um access to some type of benefit that you didn't know about that's gonna save you money or help you get out of debt or put yourself or your family through school. I mean, there's again, you you know, Scott, that the the uh the the the the benefits available to the the military community are are tremendous because a lot of people don't know what they are or how to access them or what's relevant to them. And that's part of what we're trying to do is is that awareness, awakening people and be like, oh, and then giving people a sense that they are making progress towards something. It's it's every small step, you know, every journey of a thousand miles starts with with the first step. And and I think that we let people get that sense of of success in very small steps, and then that builds momentum.

Scott McLean

Uh so veterans, my people, we can be very skeptical about these things. Veterans now, I'm just gonna say this. I'm gonna pull the curtain back a little bit. Yeah, we did what we did, and um 99% of us are proud of what we did, and there's a lot of us don't talk about what we did, and but as a group, the general uh uh view of veterans is we're all nice people, we're all patriotic, we serve that country. There's a lot of odd-nosed veterans in there, there's a lot of skeptical veterans, there's a lot of businesses that prey on veterans. I can give you a hundred stories, Andrea, of veterans that thought and they, oh well, I did this, and then all of a sudden, you know, there's the bait and switch on them. So I know for a fact the community can be very skeptical. And you mentioned that you have uh the app, the app, right? So, what would a veteran look at that's different in your app than in maybe something else that makes it more like I know, like you said, I know this is for me.

Trust, Privacy, And Why It Stays Free

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so so I think first of all, and and look, what you're what you're saying is absolutely true, and that that um that trust factor um is is a huge barrier. Um so typically veterans are accessing vet sense through a known entity. Um, so an organization they're already working with. And and I I also think that it helps with vet sense for people to know that this is something that has been developed in collaboration with the US Department of Veterans Affairs, where they are a partner to this program. Yeah, American Bankers Association um is you know a very credible national organization as part of this. Uh uh if if people are familiar with AFCs, the accredited financial counselors, we're working with you know, uh AFCs who are providing financial counseling um for free. And I I think what's interesting about this is uh no no participant, no user, no veteran, no family member, no one who accesses that program ever pays a penny to access this. And there is no way that we monetize participation. We uh it's it's just not part of the model. So we are getting funding from foundations um and and grants and things like that to support this. So that is how we are able to support the program. We're not making money off individuals, and we never that's the thing right there.

Scott McLean

Bingo, you hit it. Never have, never will, never, never want to. Good, good, because that's what happens. Correct. We'll take you so far, and then it's like, okay, now it's gonna be like a monthly fee, a subscription, or a one-time payment, or you know, we'll get a percentage of blah blah blah. It's they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_01

And look, we we our our goal is is to provide people with a trusted destination that they can come back to when they need to. We all we don't go to our primary care physician every day, every week. We go when we need to. So we provide a destination, an experience that's private, that's secure, that people can come back, get the guidance that they need, and we point them to trusted, vetted, validated resources. We we really aren't ever pointing people to you know commercial products. It's really here are the benefits offered by the US government that you should be aware of. Um, it's just if people aren't aware of them, uh it does them no good. And and that that's also kind of takes me back to how we came to work with Andrea, which is I think that we have we always hear that you know we're the best program that no one's ever heard of. And I'm like, well, that doesn't help anyone if never what no one's ever heard of us. And so we needed that marketing oomph, that expertise um to um get visibility on this program. And you know, look, we we we see great, great, great outcomes with participants. Um, you know, I'm not saying we're serving millions of people, and I'm and I would love to serve millions of people, but what I'm more interested in is having an impact on the people that we serve.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

It's quality quality over quantity, and uh, you know, so this can scale, we can help a million people, but we need to, you know, a million people need to hear about it and everything like that, and sign up. But but I I think at the end of at the end of the day, I want someone to come through the program, and when they finish their first session, they're like, I'm glad I did that, and I and I want and I need to come back, and I'll and I'm gonna do that because I I got value out of it. That's all.

Scott McLean

I am a huge fan of quality over quantity. Absolutely. Um you mentioned the American Bankers Association, is that what it is?

Partnering With The VA Through Allies

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so so they're yeah, yeah, so they're they're uh they're a um advocacy group that really represents banks in um you know around around the country. And and I I mentioned them because I I think they're a a very trusted venerable organization with a you know, they've been around for forever and they do good work and they support a lot of um good programs, and they have been a uh uh a very generous partner to to this initiative. And um, and I and again, I'm mentioning them because they're another kind of a um point of reference, like the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, that I think lends credibility that this is not you know Joe's house of yeah, yeah, right.

Scott McLean

You're not some run of the mill. So, all right, I'm gonna ask you an interesting question here. What was the process? And I love the VA. A lot of everybody, I'll tell everybody, they have their faults. There is no doubt about it. They are a gigantic ship, and turning that ship sometimes takes a while, but they have they did a big turn from the first time I went back in 2001 to the time I went back, you know, 18 years later, and it was a huge turnaround. Now, I do a little, I deal a little bit with the what the the VA in West Palm Beach with my nonprofit. What was your what was your process getting to partner with the VA? So this is where the power of partnerships is important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So our original point of contact for this program, excuse me, with an organization called AMBA, the American Military Banks of America. So they are a they're a policy advocacy group for banks and credit unions that are serving the military community. So they they are they actually are responsible for administering what's known as the Veterans Benefit Banking Program, VBVP. So that is a program that over the past uh four or four or five years has helped more than half a million veterans sign up for a bank account at a credible bank or credit union. And the importance of that is um the VA at some point is gonna stop writing physical checks for military benefits and stipends. And so, as a veteran, if you don't have a bank account with direct deposit, you're not gonna get your your money. So that program was a great success. And through you know, a collaborative approach, a public public-private partnership, there is recognition that, hey, this is a great touch point. If these veterans are coming in to get a bank account, there are probably other needs around their personal finances that are not being touched. So we were then pulled in to as part of this collaborative to provide that the vet sent piece. Um, and and then another piece that was added is the financial counseling. So in some ways, I'm gonna say this with a smile on my face, in some ways, we were fortunate not to have to work directly with the VA in terms of navigating. Oh, you're right.

Scott McLean

You're right.

SPEAKER_01

So, so, but but I think that also speaks to the value of public-private partnerships and collaborative approaches, because there is not a single organization that is going to be able to tackle this problem and and and and and make progress. And so it takes people coming together, organizations coming together to solve a problem collectively. And I think that's what we're seeing with the vet sense program. And so now we're also working with a fantastic organization, AWP, America's Warrior Partnership, and they they have direct services to veterans. And so now, as part of the as part of what they are making available to the veterans they serve is now the vet sense piece. And now what we're able to also provide through vet sense is look at all these great services being provided by AWP. So, again, the more people that come together with a um a shared mission, um, the the the more we can you know we can we can uh uh tackle this problem and make real progress.

Scott McLean

So you're a nonprofit, and I always ask nonprofits uh this question do you have any particular story back to Andrea that stands out like a success story for a veteran or a family member of a veteran or a veteran's family through that sense?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I actually uh kind of a lot. Um uh I'll go back to the to the earliest days, and I remember it was uh um a um veteran that we were working with in in Washington, DC, and he was engaged to be married, and he and his fiance were eager to buy a home. And they went through uh they went through the the the online experience, and we were able to identify that they had uh you know a little bit more debt than they should. Their credit score wasn't where it needed to be. Um and so we were we were able to um work with them not only through the online experience but connect them to a to a counselor. And what happened is they delayed buying the home. In that time, they were able to pay down their debt, they were able to save more, and then they improved their credit score. And that was the big one, by the way, because by improving their credit score, they got a much better rate on their on their mortgage. Um, and so by the time they bought the home, they were able to put more down for a down payment. Their debt to income ratio was better because they had paid down debt, they got the better rate. So they saved tens of thousands of dollars, um, you know, thousands of dollars up front in terms of fees. Um, and then because the the rate was lowered, you know, over the life of that mortgage, they're gonna be saving tens of thousands of dollars. So that is, I think, a um a good example. I I can't say that we're having that you know impact on everybody at that level, but I think we're having impacts. I I think the other thing, and this is this kind of I'm gonna, Andrew, you'll have to kick me off my soapbox on this because she knows I'll ramble on. But I think this is where when people talk about meeting people where they are, you know, we don't have to get everyone buying the home or paying down all their debt or improving their credit score. If I get you to take one step towards doing doing something better, you know, maybe you've learned something, maybe you've taken one step, maybe you're less stressed, maybe you're more confident. Those are real outcomes that we have to uh Account for.

Scott McLean

Oh, there we are. That's okay. We just missed a couple words. There we go. That was Andrea kicking you off your soul. Did you see that hand little switch over to the side?

SPEAKER_01

That's like the um Yeah, so so I and I I will I will use I I will use what I call the marathon analogy, right? So much like we have the doctor, you know, we're the you know, we're the primary care physician for financial health. Think of think of a uh a marathon where someone's been sitting on the couch for year, year after year, and they're like, I'm gonna run this marathon, I'm gonna run this marathon, and you know, years slip by and they they haven't done anything. But imagine that this is the first year that someone gets off the couch, they sign up for a marathon, they buy running shoes, they set up a training routine, they uh establish a diet, they start buying better groceries, et cetera. And normally there's about 10 things I roll through. How many steps has that individual taken towards running a marathon, which is 26.2 miles? Zero. But every one of those foundational steps is imperative in order for someone to even take their first step. And that I think is what's missing a lot of times with financial education and financial wellness is we overlook these foundational steps that are just that. You cannot have these longer-term outcomes, these longer-term benefits like running a marathon until you take care of these things. You can't get you can't prepare for a secure retirement until you start saving your first dollar or paying down some debt, freeing up money. So there's just a lot of so when we look at outcomes, yes, we all want these stories of like, wow, this veteran has saved this much and paid down this much debt and bought a home. And 100% agree those are important. But you know what? All these other steps matter.

How The Tool Works Day To Day

Scott McLean

So, which absolutely 100% good prep before you even start the journey is really important. It's like going camping and then buying a tent after you're already in the woods for three days. You know. Um sounds like you may have done that, I will not confirm or deny. Uh so let's talk about the toolkit. Okay. So what's the uh uh what's the the whole process, the ease of use for the toolkit, right?

SPEAKER_01

So this is this is very easy. So anybody uh can access vetsen at vetsen.org, V-T-C-E-N-T-S.org. And all you do is you need to provide your name and an email address, and then you are in. Um, and then and then and then you you you experience this as much or as little as you like. Um, so you go in, and obviously we want to start with that initial intake survey, get some baseline information, um, and then you know, the more the more you interact with the platform, the more questions you answer, uh, the more you um uh the the more we know about you and the more the better recommendations we can make. And again, this is all private and secure. No one has access to this information, it's not being shared. The only reason we're asking questions is the same reason when you go to a doctor, the doctor has to ask questions to know what's going on about your health in order to make recommendations, prescribe medicines, or refer you to a specialist. It's no different, but it's done in the privacy of an app that you can access on your computer, on your phone, on your tablet.

Scott McLean

It's that easy. So when you go to vetsets.org on your laptop or your desktop, um where is the app? Can you get the app through the Google Play or the App Store, the iPhone App Store, or so you access it through the URL.

SPEAKER_01

So through it's a web, it's a web-based app. So you're gonna always do it go to the website. Um and and then we do that because it gives us a lot more ability to um customize. There's um there's a lot of technical reasons we do that. Um, but it also reduces that barrier that you have another app you have to download. You just go here and you log back in. Gotcha.

Scott McLean

Gotcha. Um so what is the use of it? Um, as far as um the how can I say hits, does it is it get a lot of is it always running? Like, are there people that like how many hits have you had like in a month? Does it popular, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean it so again, we we go for quality over quantity, um, but you know, we have several hundred thousand. I'll talk about life sense broadly, which is inclusive inclusive of that sense, but we have hundreds of thousands of users, and we're adding thousands every month. Um just last, Andrea, I think you can correct me. I think it was last fall. One day, one day through one of our partners, we had 20,000 people sign up in one day. That obviously is uh you know an extraordinary day, but we've had bumps like that and certainly you know fewer. But again, I I think the way we look at this is you know, we want to work with organizations that are serving veterans, and this becomes part of their service model, their delivery model of what they make available as part of their overall package. Um, but again, I mean, people listening, veterans listening to this can go directly to vet sense and and benefit in in the same ways, but we're tending to go through organizations that have um you know, they're they're already working with veterans. So again, that that's another layer of trust built into the process. So um rather than it's like, hey, go check out vet sense, and then people have to listen to me ramble on to be like, here's the credibility behind it.

SPEAKER_00

It's a two-prong approach in that any of the veterans listening to your podcast could go and access today. Uh, but if you were if there are any nonprofit organizations that work with veterans, we'd love to work with you too.

SPEAKER_01

So see, that's why she is the marketing oh, see, she's she's earning her money right there.

Scott McLean

I mean, good answer, Andy. Good answer.

SPEAKER_00

So definitely, I mean, we want to hear from everyone. So, you know, if you work with a organ, if you're a nonprofit that works with veterans, reach out to us and you know, Blake could go through a deeper dive demo, or we can go more into the into the weeds if you want to go there. Uh, but we the the goal, the pro we want to reach as many people as possible. This is a free resource for people.

SPEAKER_01

That's the key. That it's free. Yeah, it's and I no with no gotch going back right now. There are no gotchas on this, and that's just fact.

Behavioral Finance Over Dollar Amounts

Scott McLean

Yeah. So how do you take into consideration or how do you factor in? How do you use, how do you deal with like my cost of living here in South Florida is more than a veteran in Montana, say, like you know, rural Montana. How do you balance that? Is it it's because it's not a one size fits all, right?

SPEAKER_01

Correct. So so I think the important thing is um our model, like I going back, you know, we're a behavioral-based model. So what we want to understand, you know, when you ask somebody how much debt they have, you even mentioned before, it's like you don't even want to look at your ATM research. Like there, there's so what we don't want to do is we're not trying to solve the problem of helping people get better with money by talking about money in in traditional sense uh the traditional sense. Because here's an example. Maybe you have five thousand dollars in debt and Andrea has five thousand dollars in debt. Now, is that a lot of is that a lot of debt? Well, it depends on who you are. Yeah, what really matters is do you feel like you have too much debt? And you might say no, and Andrea might say yes. That's what matters. And then then you know, later on, maybe you're working with a coach or a counselor, they can bubble up the fact that you each have$5,000 in debt. But what really matters is what is the pain point for you? I have too much debt, I have too little savings. Well, is that$50 because I have$50 saved, or it's because I have you know$5,000 saved? It is how these things land on people that matter, and that's the behavioral finance part of this. Um so it it it and and and again, um, this is this is not to we don't need to know specifics like that to be able to provide the right guidance and the right support. And I think that's also where people find this to be a very comforting um experience because they're not having to be like, oh, okay, do I have 5,000 or 7,000 or do this or that's just thinking about it. It's like, well, how many credit cards, what's the balance on each? And it's overwhelming. It's it's overwhelming. And so, like, just let's have a conversation, and that's how that's how the experience is. It's a chat, like it is a chat experience where it's like answer some questions, get some feedback. You get a very cool we've one of the things we've updated is you'll get this cool um uh coach's report, and it's like, here's what we know about you, and then here's what you need to, here's what you need to know, kind of like a learning plan, and here are the steps you can take, action plan, and then here are the connections, the resources, the partners, the programs that you can reach out to to help you. It's all right there, topic by topic, pay down debt, improve my credit score, build and verging savings, whatever it is. Um, you know, it's it's just this is this is meant to kind of simplify um helping people navigate money because it's hard.

SPEAKER_00

That people don't feel comfortable having these conversations. This is an opportunity for you to have this in a safe environment. And I what I also like is that everyone's goals are different. So Blake shared the example of the couple wanting to buy a home. You know, I may be in a different stage, or you may be in a different stage, and your goals are gonna be different. And so it's not gonna be like you've done those work calculators before where they just throw retirement information at you. And, you know, if you're not thinking about retirement, I don't want to know about that. You know, these are my goals, this is where I want to be. And so it's very much customized to you and your situation without making you feel bad. I think that's the other thing, too, is that there's so much uh advice out there that just makes you feel, you know, compares you to somebody else, and it just makes you feel bad.

Scott McLean

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You know, and it's there, there's so many people ask, you know, how am I doing? Or can I retire on a million dollars? And I'm like, well, if you're Jeff Bezos, you couldn't fill up your super yacht with a million dollars. So no, a million dollars is not a and I I'm not trying to be cheeky about it, but but the reality is this is where you know when people say, How am I doing? It's like, well, we need to know a little bit more. Do you you know how much money are you going to need to have for a specific goal? Whether it's how much money do you need, how big of a house are you gonna buy? Um, what do you want your retirement to look like? And so there is no there is no single answer that can that that that um that will answer that that question for everyone because it is so personal. This is called personal finance because it is personal, right? You know, and so I I think that's something as well where I one of the worst things people can do is compare themselves to other people. Um and then be like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm so far behind. No, no, no. What you see on social media are the best versions of people living their best life and it's not it's not real. No, but it that's creating a lot of anxiety, a lot of a lot of people are depressed because they look at social media and like, oh my gosh, everyone is a millionaire and I'm not. I'm like, not true.

Scott McLean

So can organizations like nonprofit organizations use this toolkit to help veterans that they're helping? 100%.

SPEAKER_01

That is our that is a that is an ideal model where if again to Andrew's point, if there are you know other nonprofits listening to this and and want to learn, you can access it now for sure. But what we really like to do is implement uh a version for your organization so we so you can actually access, um, you know, get the insights of how you are helping uh the people you're you're serving. Um so 100%.

Scott McLean

If an organization is dealing with a veteran and it they find out that this veteran is in like a they are in a financial crisis, like they're about to be evicted, does the toolkit offer like an emergency exit, like a way to elevate this particular person to get them however, however it works, more help?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so great, that's a great question. And and so there is a there is a pathway which is like I'm you know I'm in crisis, and that's gonna have a special set of resources uh that that the the veterans can access. Okay, for for sure. But also when we when we work with individual, let's say we're working with a nonprofit that's working with veterans, we also want to know what just like American America's Warrior Partnership, they have existing programs and services that we can point people back to. So if we're working with the nonprofit serving veterans, um then maybe they have specific resources that can help them if someone's in crisis. So we always want we always wanted to make sure we are highlighting what that nonprofit is doing for the veterans they're working with.

unknown

Yeah.

Scott McLean

Excellent. Excellent. If there's any nonprofits out there that find this uh this tool could be very helpful, Blake, it's vet sense.org. That's right. V and that's C E N T S. That's right. C-E-N T S, yes. And that could go for a veteran also, just a regular veteran wants to get their shit together. 100%. Excellent, excellent. Um, Andrea, once again, if somebody, if a nonprofit would like to use your uh your your magical abilities, as Blake will attest to. 100%. Yes, yes, yes. How would they get in touch with you, Andrea?

SPEAKER_00

They can uh if they go to my website at soakinfluencerpr.com, there's a button to uh get connected and we can do a consult.

Scott McLean

All right. So I I say this uh every episode where I interview a nonprofit. And although this one feels a little different because it you're like somewhat of a financial nonprofit, right? Although you you don't give money, you deal with money and you deal with helping people with their money. But I always say this. Um, is there a donate button anywhere on your website, Blake? Or is it what if somebody wanted to donate to VetSense? How would they do that?

SPEAKER_01

So we we are we have a fiscal sponsor uh called the Greater Washington Community Foundation, uh, and it is programmed there. I I'd be happy to follow up and give you that that link, and um, you know, obviously would appreciate that support. Um, quite honestly, I'm I'm equally interested in you know the the nonprofit organizations that are working with veterans where we can collaborate and work together. That'd be that'd be my first start.

Scott McLean

Because I always tell the audience, if you like what they're doing, give them your money. That's in order. And I always say that I don't care who I interview, if there's somebody out there that loves what you're doing, I always say, if you love it, give them your money. I would like to have their money too, but I don't do that. That's a conflict of interest with the podcast. I try to have some ethical boundaries with my fun nonprofit and my podcast. Although they they tend to slip sometimes. First, Andrea, is there anything we forgot to talk about that you want to touch on?

SPEAKER_00

I would just say share your story. I mean, there's no right or wrong way to get started. Just do it and you'll figure it out along the way. But definitely share your story.

Scott McLean

And you'd be amazed at the uh at the at the reactions, the responses, and the love that you'll get from your story. Uh, I can attest to that. That's a whole story in itself. Uh, Blake, is there anything we forgot about vet sets that you might want to touch on?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I I just I I think that you know we all together have a big problem to solve in in supporting our veterans in the in this kind of work. And um, I just I welcome the collaboration and people reaching out uh where we can we can work together to to reach more veterans.

Scott McLean

And it's free, people. It's free. This is no obligation. It's free. You cannot turn that down. What do you got to lose? You have zero to lose if you go, if you if you might even be uh slightly thinking about your financial situation, go to vet sensecnts.org and just check it out. You have nothing to lose. You get a free assessment, you'll you'll get it all. It's it's all there for you for free. And like Blake said, and I'm I'm I believe him when he said there is no gotcha down the road, there is zero gotcha down the road. Yeah, it's not something like the bait and switch when you're two weeks in and you, oh, we got you. Oh, by the way, uh, there's if you want to give us this, then you can get that. None of that.

SPEAKER_01

None sir. No, sir.

Scott McLean

And and and if I didn't believe you, I would say, let me know, and I will let everybody know. Yeah. Uh guys, thank you so so much for coming on. This was a great interview. I came into this one with, like I said, with I was like, I don't know if I can handle this one just basically on my own. I might have a little research, but I think it came out great. Um, I appreciate your time. I know you're both very busy. And uh thanks again for coming on. And hey, Blake, maybe uh, you know, eight months down the road, or Andrea, we can do a comeback on and see how things have been.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that'd be great.

How To Connect And Final Takeaways

Scott McLean

Uh great. So just hold on. I'll do my outro and then stick around. Uh the audience is used to hearing that. Well, we built another bridge. We built two bridges today. We built a non-profit bridge, uh, and a very interesting one in the fact that I did not know what a non-profit fractional CMO was, but now I do. And I can I can act like I know things now in the nonprofit world. And uh Blake and the being the founder of Vet Sense, it's free. It helps veterans, and anything that's free and helps veterans is okay in my book. And uh check them out once again, vet sense, c e n t s dot or g. And for the nonprofits, sock so k influencer, pr dot com. Correct. Dot com. See, there you go. I knew that. I knew that. And uh again, if you like this, share it. If you didn't like it, well, thanks for watching and listening for an hour and three minutes. I appreciate your time. And uh, you will see me again next week.

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Scott McLean

Host