Ep. 80 - Rick Sherak from ZEEN - The VA-Approved Mobility Device That Blends Walker And Wheelchair

I talk with Rick Chirac from Exokinetics about ZEEN, a lift-assist mobility device that blends a walker and wheelchair to help people stand, move, and transfer with more safety. We connect the origin story to Steadicam inventor Garrett Brown, then get practical about fit, training, fall prevention, and how veterans can get ZEEN through the VA. 

• Garrett Brown’s Steadicam history and how it inspires ZEEN 
• What ZEEN is and who it helps: balance, strength, endurance issues 
• How the gas-spring lift works and why the seat and strap improve safety 
• Real-world use: ramps, turning radius, terrain, restaurants, storage 
• Fitting and customization: spring levels, height setup, Zoom training 
• Transfers and daily living tasks, including bathroom and bed height changes 
• VA access: Federal Supply Schedule, physical therapy clinic workflow, medical necessity 
• Why naming fear of falling matters and how pride can block care 
• Warranty, repairs, and simple maintenance expectations 
• Financial help for civilians through Project Elevate Mobility grants 

Go to the website and check it out. Go to the VA when you see this product and you say, I want it, I need it. Talk to your physical therapist. “I have a fear of falling. I don’t want to fall. Put that in my medical record.” 

Like, Subscribe and Share. If you have comments or suggestions email us at: vetsconnectionpodcast@gmail.com. You can also find the video of this podcast on our YouTube Channel - Vetsconnection Podcast

Transcript

Scott McLean 0:01

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Scott McLean. My guest today is Rick Chirac. Rick is with a company called Exokinetics. And Rick is here representing a product that they made. It's actually a pretty cool product. I I did a little bit of research as a podcaster, I should do a lot more research, but I like to

Welcome And Meet Rick Chirac

Scott McLean 0:24

find out from the person. It's called Xine, Z-Dou-E-N. We have to emphasize that because, like Rick told me prior to this recording, a lot of ways it could be spelled. And but the correct spelling is Z-E-E-N. And we're going to get right into it. Rick, how are you doing today, buddy? Hey, doing real real good, Scott.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Thanks for having me on. Yeah, yeah, my pleasure. Where are you where are you at right now? Where are you located? So my company is located in West Chester, Pennsylvania. And for all the golf fans out there, just about 20 minutes away is a Ronomic Golf uh course where they're playing right now the PGA championship. Nice. So our our little part of the world outside of Philadelphia is very popular right now.

Scott McLean 1:13

Yeah. Let me ask you this. I'm gonna go a little off topic for a second. Uh the number eight jersey is very prominent behind you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Oh, it's actually 18. Oh, it's 18. I don't know if you can. Yeah. Oh, there it is.

Scott McLean 1:25

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

That that was uh Peyton Manning when he was with the Broncos. I'm a Colorado boy. Yeah. And uh um yeah, I I really

Jerseys And A Quick NFL Detour

SPEAKER_02 1:35

love the Broncos when when Peyton was playing with them.

Scott McLean 1:38

So somewhere around here, I have my Tom Brady jersey hanging out somewhere. But you know, it's just not in the shot right now. Brady's the man.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

He's the man, he's the goat.

Scott McLean 1:48

Uh so you're a veteran.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I am. I am right. Uh what branch? So uh I I spent uh seven years in the Air Force.

Scott McLean 1:59

And um Yes, finally another Air Force person.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Thank you very much. Just like yourself.

Scott McLean 2:06

Yeah, I'm always surprised because I say this and my listeners and viewers already know what's coming. It's always the Marines and the Army, and I'm like Air Force people.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah, there you go. Well, you know, I didn't have a choice, so I'm gonna tell you a quick story. Okay. Um, my dad uh was uh quite old when I was born, right? I was the big surprise for my mom and dad. Um, but he served and my mom served in World War II. Wow. And my dad was a fighter pilot with the Flying Tigers,

Air Force Roots And Chuck Yeager

SPEAKER_02 2:40

and uh he was, you know, uh doing all these missions in uh the Burma Theater during the war. And after World War II ended, 1945, two years later, the Air Force was uh developed, right? Was created. And my dad was one of the first officers, uh pilots to go into the brand new Air Force from the Army Air Corps previously. Um so he yeah, he spent 30 years uh flying um, you know, with with uh with some of the the big names out there, the Chuck Yeager's of the world, etc.

Scott McLean 3:16

But um by the time you know I came around and got old enough to go to college, you know, it was it was pretty much expected that I was, you know, I had a little brush with fame one time. So when I was in uh I was my first base was uh clock air base. It's not there anymore in the Philippines, which should have been illegal to send somebody there for their first base. That's another conversation for another time. That has its own reputation, yeah. Yes. So uh I get stationed, I leave there after two years, and I go to Mather Air Force Base in Sacramento. And that's when I realized, and the Air Force helped me realize that I had a drinking problem, right? Yeah, well, you know, it is what it is. I I grew up in that Irish attitude in Boston, and it was you know, drinking when you're 12. And you go into this new world, and you're like, and then you go to the Philippines where it's like insane and there's no rules, and then I go to this little stateside base, and they're like, no, no, no, no, you can't drinking in front of us is not acceptable here, right? You're in the real Air Force now. So they long story short, they sent me to Travis Air Force Base to the alcohol rehab set of the ARC. And uh, which fortunately was in I was in Sacramento, Travis is a little south of that. And uh while we were there, uh I got on the elevator with a guy I was in the rehab with, and there's this gentleman that's an older gentleman, not the biggest guy in the world, just very and like we look at each other, and my buddy Molly goes, Oh, no kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's Chuck Yeager. Yeah, and I was like, How are you, Mr. Jaeger? And he smiled. He's like, Good, good. And then his floor came and he left, and I was like, Dad, oh, that might have been the coolest thing at the time that I have like that's a let that's an icon. That's an icon, man. I got close enough.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

He broke barriers, uh, no, no pun included, you know. No, no, no.

Scott McLean 5:16

He he was a rebel too.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

So oh yeah, yeah. And those guys, that's what was so cool about growing up in a family with you know, with World War II uh pilots, and and that was that that was the best generation, man. No doubt about it. Talking about you know, uh true Americans, just the entire country, you know, fought that war. Everyone, and and like I mentioned, my mom, she was a young young girl at 19 when the war started, and she enlisted in the Navy and did her part during the war. So you know, God bless you, Patriots. Good for them. Yeah, good for them.

Scott McLean 5:53

Good for them. Um Patriots to an extreme, a good extreme, yeah. So uh speaking of we talked about Chuck Yeager, the groundbreaker kind of guy, but yeah, one of the I did a little research, like I said, and one of the uh co-creators of Zine, yeah, is a guy named a man named Garrett Brown, right? And uh he has an interesting background. Do you you wanna

The Steadicam Connection To ZEEN

Scott McLean 6:23

sure? I mean, when I read this, I was like, oh that, I mean, come on, man. This is pretty cool stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah, yeah, no, he's he's a rock star. Speaking of icons, right? Um, I just saw him yesterday, and and he's you know, he's I think he's 83 or 84 now, but just running in a guy, he just got off sailing his his boat off the shore, you know, stopped in the office just to check in on the business. Uh-huh. Um, but but Garrett, his claim to fame is that he's one of Philadelphia's uh most famous inventors, right? Uh and back in the 70s, he invented this concept of of um mounting a movie camera on an apparatus that the cameraman would wear, kind of like a backpack, but in the front with this big heavy movie camera. And the movie cameraman would be able to run and move, but the camera would stay steady. So it got the name of Steady Cam, right? And his very first um uh movie that he used this in was this under budget movie by this nobody knew him. His name was Sylvester Stallone, and he did this movie called Rocky.

Scott McLean 7:37

Get the hell out. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

And Garrett was the cameraman with his apparatus, and when that classic scene when when uh Sylvester runs up the stairs of the Philadelphia Museum, you know, and at the top of this, Garrett was the cameraman running right behind him and moving around him, right? And getting the shroud of the city and the distance, and and it was revolutionary, revolutionary, because prior to this device, um, they they would move cameras on train tracks. Yes, they'd have to build train tracks to push the camera along, you know. Now it could be worn by anybody and run around. So uh long story short, Steady Cam took off like crazy. Garrett uh filmed over 200 action adventures, including Star Wars, Indiana Jones. He did the shining, you know, that scene where the little kid is on his uh his little uh big wheel, the little big wheel cruising through the halls. That was Garrett running bent over right behind us.

Scott McLean 8:38

That's a whole episode in itself, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Oh, yeah. Wow. He's a rock star. Um and he's won four Oscars uh for technology innovations in in movies. Um, but let me take it to the next step. So at this time, as Garrett was, you know, uh uh uh claim, you know, he was uh uh reaching his fame, his father and mother were getting quite elderly. And he was noticing his father's mobility was severely being impacted, right? Um you know, his father was struggling with these walkers and they were unsafe. And then his father wasn't mentally ready to go into a wheelchair yet, because when you go to a wheelchair, you know, your life really changes severely. And Garrett was thinking, man, if I could, you know, lift these heavy cameras and keep them steady and secure, uh, I should be able to devise something that would lift a person, right, from seating to standing and securely allow them to walk so that they don't, you know, have that fear of falling. And that's what inspired his his um you know dream and vision for the zine, Z W E N, and um and the rest is history. He um, you know, he hired a team of engineers and they spent five and a half years, luckily they got funding, spent five and a half years designing and developing this brand new mobility device to to help people reach more independent living that are you know uh dealing with mobility challenges.

Scott McLean 10:17

It is an amazing

What ZEEN Is Built To Solve

Scott McLean 10:18

product. I had a video that I could have played, but I have uh also I do an this is an audio podcast, and I think the the listeners would be like, I'm not here. I don't really, but what I highly suggest is go to the website and and look at this. Before we I usually say that at the end, yeah, but I want people to stop the video right now, go to the website if you want. Uh and and in in the website again is it's go geo zine z e-en dot com.

unknown 10:48

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

And as soon as you get to the first page, there's a play button. Just hit that, and it'll give you uh a really good overview of what we're talking about.

Scott McLean 10:57

Yes, there's a good 60-second video. And I was actually, it wasn't what I what I pictured, and I looked at it and went, well, that's pretty functional. It seems pretty lightweight. It doesn't seem to be, you know, uh uh like cumbersome or anything like that. And uh it and just the way it works, um, and it's all foot-driven, right? They're moving the legs, they're getting the the circulation going and still working those muscles a little bit, but they have the security of the strap. And I I really do want people to go look at that, go to the website and check it out. Uh, this is for anybody, but we're doing this in particular because it's for you know it's the veterans and it's for the vets, yeah. Yeah, and you guys got uh uh you got uh approved by the VA, correct?

SPEAKER_02 11:44

We did, we did. And and again, you know, just just for your audience, uh before we go to the VA, um, just a real quick description of of the zine. It is a um best way to think about it is that it's a hybrid between a wheelchair and a walker. Yes, right. And just like you said, Scott, it's

How The Lift And Safety Work

SPEAKER_02 12:06

intended for people that want to maintain activity with their body, right? But they're suffering from some form of uh deficiency in balance or strength, right? It's hard for them to use their legs to stand up or endurance. They just get super tired real quick. That is our target audience, and you know, people could could be suffering um, you know, those type of deficiencies due to chronic illness. Um, uh, you had mentioned before TBI or SCI, you know, uh spinal cord injuries, um, stroke victims use our platform. And what you what you do is you sit in the zine like you're sitting in a chair. And the the device has a big, it looks like a bicycle seat, yeah. A huge bicycle seat with a with a prowl that goes in between your legs, right? And you're sitting on this big seat and you're going, okay, now what I do. Well, you reach down and you engage these levers with your hands, and all of a sudden this seat lifts you up, right? Yeah, and it can lift. Yes. We can lift anywhere somebody from as uh as light as 50 pounds to 325 pounds. Nice, and it lifts you up without motors or any type of you know, yeah, shenanigans like that. This is a well-designed gas spring operated device, and it will lift you into standing now. Because you're on the seat, now instead of sitting, you're standing, and that prow is in between your legs, but you're still in contact with the seat at the back part of your buttocks area, right? And you think, What is that for? Well, that secures you, you are being supported. And like you had mentioned, we have just a little seat belt that goes around your waist, not tight, but what it does is it holds you in the device, right? So that you're secure. And if you trip, and if you go to our website, you'll see a lot of people doing this. We call it fall, right? If you fall and your hands are in the air and your feet are in the air, the zine will hold you in sp in place. Yes, it it doesn't prevent all falls, but it really is an amazing, it helps in fall prevention. Um and then once you're standing in the zine, you just you have weight bearing on your legs, even if you haven't done that in a long time. We have people that have been in wheelchairs for 20 years get into a zine and they're going, Oh my gosh, I'm standing, you know? Yeah, and it it supports you, it puts weight through your legs, you can take steps, right?

Scott McLean 14:44

And then the center of balance is around the waist, it's in the center area because you can in the seatbelt. It's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

And you're there, right? Yeah, yeah, you're there, and and you're secure. And once you trust the device, you can actually take a step and push off and coast a little bit, then take another step and push off and coast a little bit. We call this zening, and and it takes practice. But once you should see people that can't walk on their own, but they get in a zine and they're just cruising around, and their wife or caretaker is going, Hey, slow down, you know, wait for me. Yeah, and you know, it it really gives this new ability to move in one's environment securely, safely, and with mobility that that matters. And plus that whole seat thing, you can go down at any time, yep, or go up at any time. And a lot of people will take their seat all the way up and then they'll scoop back and they're put their feet on these footrests. Yes, yeah. And now they're sitting at bar stool level.

Scott McLean 15:51

Yeah. So it's it and it's uh the framing is streamlined, it's like a walker. It's it's not this big, bulky machine, which is what I kind of was expecting, because you you you put that together, you're like, okay, it's holding an adult, a big adult. So it's gotta be this big, bulky machine that's and it's not, it's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

It's yeah, it's it's very sleek. It's like a high-end, you know, racing bicycle. Yeah. Um, we have the same technology with extruded aluminum framing. I mean, this is ultralight, highly powerful, strong framing design. And um, yeah, it's made to be used by people, you know, five, seven years every single day. Up and down, up, that's a lot all over.

Scott McLean 16:41

That's that's a lot, yeah. So and and to to move it, so it it folds, it folds up like it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Yeah, that that that took some engineering. Yeah, we we developed this whole thing like in four years, and then they said, Well, this is cool, but we can't take it anywhere. It's just so then they said, Oh, let's go back to the starting gate and figure out how to take this thing and make it fold up like an accordion. Yes, it just folds up into um it's 11 inches wide when it's folded up, and then it weighs about 40 pounds, so it's not super heavy, it's not super light, right? But it's it's at that level where you you can put it in the back of a car. Yeah. Uh, I've seen people put it on the back seat of you know of a car. Um, and we have some accessories that make it easier to load into a car. But but yeah, the whole thing about it folding, I got sales guys that every week they fly with it, you know? Yeah, they take it to the airport, they fold it up, they put a cover over it, take it all the way down to the gate or to the door of the plane, and then they check it like a like a baby carriage. Wow. Right there at the at the door of the plane. So it's very, very transportable.

Scott McLean 17:56

Yeah, it is, it is. Um, so as far as let's let's get into the mechanics of it. Uh the the lift assist tension, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh, how is that adjusted? Like is it they have to reach down on the side or reach behind them? You know what I mean? All right, Scott, you've been watching the videos. I did a little bit of homework.

Fitting The Springs And Training

SPEAKER_02 18:18

You did more research than you would let on. No. Um, so we have we actually have three frame sets, right, for for strength of these air pistons. The air pistons are are what give you that lift because our goal, no matter how big you are, is to lift at least 75% of your body weight, right? So that you're you're lifting 25%, we're lifting 75%. So we have we have uh three three uh levels. We have our light gas springs, which which are really designed for very small people from 50 pounds up to about 100 pounds, right? And that's for children uh primarily. Um if you weigh more than that, then we take you to the standard springs, which you know start at about 100, go to 250, and then we have heavy gas springs. So there's three categories, but once you're in a category, right, because the range is so big, then the springs, each spring can be adjusted to five different levels from lighter force to heavier force. Um, and we do this with all of our customers. We customize the weight setting and we customize the height setting so that that seat that I was talking to you about when you're standing is at the perfect height to support you as an individual. So not up on your tippy toes, not on your tippy toes, and we don't want those legs bent too much. We want it just right. It's like the Goldilocks zone, you know, just right. Right and uh my my team for every one of our customers, if they can't come in personally to us or one of our distributors, then we do these Zoom training sessions, which are highly effective, and it's you know, you see each other. Yes. Um, and we just make sure that the zine is fitting properly, and then you can do everything you want to do.

Scott McLean 20:11

So it's very personalized. They don't just you don't just send it to them and say, here's the instruction manual. Uh good luck. Uh thanks for buying the product, you know, here you go. And uh I don't know if that's the case for other companies, but I evidently it's not for this, it's very personalized, which is a really, really good touch because I I mean what could be more what could be more personal than something that helps you move in your world, right? Exactly, yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Um yes, we're we're so confident, uh Scott, that every one of our sales, well, like you buy it through the factory, that's the best way to buy it. Yeah, you know, uh just call us, uh, my team will work with you. Um, and if you can't try it in person, buy it, we'll send it to your home, we'll train you on on a Zoom call, and then we give you uh standard three weeks to try it in your home, outside, at work, at church, shopping, or whatever you want to do. We want to make sure that the zine is a good fit for you. And oftentimes people will call uh about 10% of the time, people will call and say, Ah, this is not good for me. Yeah, and we work with them, and if it's not a good fit, we say, Hey, that's fine. We'll ship it back and we'll refund your money as long as you didn't, you know, damage it, which nobody ever damages it. Yeah, it seems pretty durable. Yeah, it's very durable. You know, yeah, yeah, it could be used inside, outside. We've had people take it into a pool before. We've had people take it into their shower.

Scott McLean 21:45

Wow. So, okay, well, that's an important thing right there. So, what you just said, I I didn't even think of that. So now you have people, and it's not just elderly people, it's people with maybe a disability, like we like you had mentioned earlier. Uh and And there's you know the

Transfers Bathroom Use And Daily Life

Scott McLean 22:01

whole new bathroom systems where the tub opens up and people can get in instead of climbing over it. So maybe you get in with one of these and it it handles the you know it's waterproof to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah, you know, we don't really promote that as as you know. Some people get creative, uh you know, because they trust it. And that's a that's a you know, it's a feeling of trust when people feel like they can really utilize something like this throughout their their daily journey, you know?

Scott McLean 22:32

Right, right. It it'll at least get them to the bathtub. Yeah. We'll celebrate that. Get you to the bathtub or the shower.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

All right, it helps them in that transfer, in the in that intimate time when you're trying to get out of your device onto the toilet. Okay. The uh the zine does a great job of that because it's right there with you. You can adjust it to any height, and then you can move from that height, you know.

Scott McLean 22:57

Interesting, yeah. The things that people don't really think about. Yeah, yeah. You know, my uh my my my late brother, he passed away a year ago, my oldest brother. He uh he had one leg and you know, cancer, bone cancer, and knee, whatever. And uh, you know, I I never really thought of things because he was he was my brother, he was tough, he survived it, but I never really uh when I was younger uh took into account the struggles of somebody with and his was above the knee, so he had the prosthetic, and sure. So there's all these little things that people don't think about. Getting to the bathroom is one of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

You know, yeah um, yeah, those daily living tasks. Yeah, you know, uh that that's that's quality of life, right? Yeah, if you can't do those daily living tasks well, your quality of life is impacted. And I'm sure if you can do them well, it is really enhanced.

Scott McLean 23:53

I'm 100% sure this would have benefited him. Absolutely, this would have made it a lot easier for him to do things. He never complained. I just kind of picked up on it as we got older. Sure. Uh, but this would have been a perfect product for him because now when you have one leg, your other leg takes the brunt of the weight, it takes the legs, it starts to throw off your your gate, you know, because the way you are, there's a lot that goes into that stuff. So zine would have been a perfect product for him. Uh so how does it handle the technical stuff, uh inclines, like like we'll just say a wheelchair ramp or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah. So um again, like you had mentioned earlier, this is not a motorized device.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Right? This is this is not like a scooter um or or or some

Ramps Brakes And Real-World Limits

SPEAKER_02 24:47

of these uh walkers that have motors in the in the wheels. Uh Zine is is you powered. It's powered by you, right? And as you go up a ramp, a small incline like that, um because you're supported, as long as as long as your legs enable you to walk, uh a lot of times we'll have you go down a setting, right? Okay. Go down a couple inches so that as you go up the ramp, that seat is still in contact with you, and it's not you know, not pushing you too hard. Um, but people get really good at doing accessible ramping because they only have so much of a grade to go up, right, by law. Um and again, you have brakes also similar to bicycle brakes. So you could take a step brake, take a step, brake, and and the chair will you know will go up with you, but not go backwards, and you can progress like that.

Scott McLean 25:46

It's not gonna be out of control zening, yeah. Backwards, you know little help here, little help as he's coast back down the road.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, you you don't want that.

Scott McLean 25:58

Those breaks do come in handy, and just like anything, there's limitations to it. You don't want to be going up a uh a like a steep incline on a hill unless you feel hey, that's on you, you want to take that chance. But I I probably would assume they wouldn't do it like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah. Well, and everybody has, you know, what's so interesting about this this industry that we're in is that each one of our customers is so different. Yeah, you know, like especially in the vet community. You know, we're we're serving vets throughout the country and with stubborn with stubborn people too. I I love that. Vets are my favorite customers. Do it my way. Well, and it's also like I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna make this work. Yes, you know, they have a determination, and it's and I'm not just saying that, it is so true compared to the other pop part of the population. Absolutely. That's that's man, they're tough. Yeah, and you have to be tough because that's you know, all of us that have served, you know, have a mental toughness just to get into the service. Yeah, you know, you're you're committed, you're mission-oriented, you you you're disciplined, you give it your all. Um, and and at that time in your life when you're facing mobility challenges, those attributes really ensure that um that you'd be a great ziner, right?

Scott McLean 27:21

Yes, yeah, there you go. Little plug there. What's the turning radius on it?

SPEAKER_02 27:29

So if if you stood in the zine and just turned your, you know, started turning with your hips, we call it a pirouette. The entire device literally will turn around your body without drifting. And that's a 45-inch radius, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

So um part of our training, you know, we we go through the training steps with everybody, but one of the final, you know, things to make sure that you graduated training is to see if you can stand in place and just turn or you know, just tirouette a 360. Um, and the reason you can do that with a zine is because we patented the way that the wheels work and the axles, the axles actually float. So it it's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

And if you have a chance to try one of these devices, you'll see what I mean. But that's what gives this amazing ability to turn on the dime, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Um and it again, it just gives you a lot more flexibility as you're moving through kitchens or hallways or you know, that type of thing.

Scott McLean 28:37

So everybody, most everybody has a well, there's a lot of different kinds of um driveways. There's gravel driveways, there's dirt driveways, there's cement, there's tar, there's grass driveways, right? So terrain-wise, how does it handle all the different types of terrain?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Sure.

Turning Radius Terrain And Wheels

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Well, great questions, by the way. Um our standard wheels are really ideal for harder uh surfaces, right? Yeah uh the asphalt, the cement, the you know, the wood floors or you know, poly floors. Um the standard wheels work great. Now, some of our our clients will upgrade their wheels to a urethane wheel system. Uh okay. So urethane is a little wider, right? And it absorbs um, you know, shock uh a lot better.

Scott McLean 29:33

Like old skateboard wheels, right? It's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

And and you can go over gravel much easier with those. Um, it goes over grass much easier because it doesn't the the standard wheels are are thinner and they kind of go into the the grass more than the urethane wheels. So um yeah, we're always thinking about ways to upgrade, you know, the zine so that it matches your environment and where you're gonna use it.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Right.

Scott McLean 30:03

So you mentioned earlier uh pulling up to the bar, like yeah, I'm standing at a bar, right? Now, what about uh going to a restaurant and an average, I don't know what's a table height, like 26 inches or something, and uh how do they adjust to that?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

That that's the beauty of the zine. We um uh and for anybody facing mobility challenges, they'll be familiar with this word. It's called transfers, right? Transferring from a chair to a device, a mobility device, transforming uh uh from a mobility device, you know, to a higher chair or whatever. Um, the zine, because it has this ability to start at seating level and go up to standing level, you can adjust it at any height. So it's a beautiful thing to see somebody walking in a restaurant in a zine, right? Yeah, and then they come up to the table, like you said, a standard dining table, they engage the lift mechanism, and then they go down. In fact, I wish your readers or your listeners could see. I'm sitting in a zine right now. Are you really? Now I'm engaging my levers. Watch.

Scott McLean 31:11

Oh, as he drops down and down and down. Now, okay, for the for the audio listeners, right now I see a square box of screen that he's in, it's a split screen, and all I see is from his eyes up like he's peeking over the fence. And then here it here it goes coming up.

Restaurants Bar Height And Storage

Scott McLean 31:30

Now he's standing.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Nice, wow. So when you have that vertical mobility of going from seating at a table where you and the in the and the handlebars that have the brakes on them, they fold backwards, right? So the nice thing is that you're now in a zine.

Scott McLean 31:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

You're you're at the table, there's nothing between you and the table, you're just at the table like anybody else, right? Right. And then when you go to a bar uh height table, yeah, you can lift up and again put your handlebars back and high tops, yeah. Sit right at the high top and have your non-alcoholic beverage. Thank you very much. Uh yeah.

Scott McLean 32:12

You have your your play beer and uh which I highly recommend the Heineken Zero. It's a really good non-alcoholic beer. It's really good. They're not they are not sponsors of this podcast, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

I'm telling you, I drank every non-alcoholic beer there was during Lent this year. This year I went totally dry, and I was I was some of those are really good. They are good. Yeah, they are you know?

Scott McLean 32:39

Um is there built-in storage?

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Uh we do have a a uh flex uh bag on the back. Okay, a bag.

Scott McLean 32:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

You could put you could put a notebook in there, you could put a computer in there. Um, yeah, it it it gives you some storage. Uh we also have these really snazzy cup holders that attach to the side so that you can either put your cell phone in the cup holder, uh one side or both sides. You know, you can put your water there. Um okay. Yeah, it's it's it's made for moving and grooving, you know.

Scott McLean 33:14

Uh giving you what you can even like customize it like you can like pimp it out, like look at my look at my zine.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, yeah, some of some of our lovely lady customers, they'll put stickers all over it, you know, and um and and put ribbons on it. And it's amazing how that's how people love their zine, you know. It's with them, and it kind of makes them uh an attractive um uh kind of rock star out there because they're out in the world with this device that that they're you know beautifully integrated with, and people come up to our customers all the time and go, what is that? What is that? Where did you get that? Yes, you know?

Scott McLean 33:58

Yeah, I know I would ask somebody. Oh, yeah. And I'm not just saying that because oh, we're doing the podcast, and I'm this is an amazing product. And I don't usually uh on this podcast, I don't usually uh like do these types of episodes. I get a lot of people, hey, I have this and I have that. Uh and when I saw, you know, we communicated and I heard about it, I go, this sounds like a pretty good idea. And I think this is beneficial. And again, this podcast isn't just listened to by veterans and family members. This is listened to the general public listeners to this also. So this is uh uh uh and and I always want to tie in, so you gotta tie into the veterans and you get a tie in with the VA. So you got the thumbs up, right? Yeah. This is so far, this is a great episode. Um, what is the average learning curve on on this?

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Like, is there uh like there is there's it since it's not like a wheelchair. Wheelchair, you know how you use the wheelchair? Yeah, you just sit in it, you sit in it, right? Yeah, and and you roll the wheels. Um, there's a little bit of training with the zine. Yeah. Uh, because you have not only horizontal

Learning Curve Mindset And Who It Fits

SPEAKER_02 35:05

mobility, you have that vertical mobility, you have to learn how to use the lift mechanism, right? You have to learn how to use the brakes, and and several things will move to get out of the way when you don't want them in the way. Um, but that takes about a 30-minute Zoom call. Okay. Right? Yeah. And and again, we offer our trainings to all of our customers, uh, complimentary, you know. Uh a lot of our our our folks, you know, they they have some pretty severe uh limitations. So they have to be trained a little differently than somebody with less severe limitations, you know? Yeah, yeah. Um, but we're always there for our customers. I have a an amazing, compassionate, and just empathetic team of professionals that um take calls from our customers or do Zoom calls with them. Um, because our whole goal is is to make them, you know, make them the best ziners they can be. And we always say it's not your body, right, as much as your mind. Uh that determination. The best people that that uh make zine part of their life and part of the you know the success that they can have with it is because of that raw determination. That's why I love vets so much as customers. I mean, talking about guys that are just determined, you know, and and it's not for everyone, you know. Sometimes the zine just doesn't work. You know, if you have to be able to squeeze your your hands, at least one hand. We have a model where at least one hand, if if one hand is good, where you can engage the levers, then you're good. Um but you know, sometimes you don't have that.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

And we're trying to come up with other ways where people that don't have hand grip strength can operate it.

Scott McLean 36:54

But always be improving.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

That's always always RD, yeah.

Scott McLean 36:58

So I and I always say, so here's kind of a cheap plug. I was talking to you earlier about my foundation, the one man Mike Foundation. And I work with veterans, I teach them how to podcast, and we talk about the storytelling part, and uh, but podcasting requires equipment. And you uh adult learners are very hard to teach because adult learners want to see it, they want to touch it, they want to be around adult learners are not really manual readers, right? We're really horrible at reading directions. Uh, I'm sure you probably aren't you know any different when it comes to certain things, right? I can figure this out, right? Yeah. And I always tell them, okay, well, when we get into the podcasting equipment, you're gonna get a microphone. Not all microphones are the same, and you probably end up getting an audio processor. They're not all the same. I can't teach you on every single product. I am not versed on every single product, but I do say, you know, being in the military, I think at one point we all in basic training, we fight an M16 or whatever, and it was or or or you go to your next, your first duty station, and you have to learn your nomenclature. Learn the nomenclature of the M16 was one of the things we had to do, right? Memorite, know your equipment, right? It's know your equipment. Absolutely. And I and I kind of use that with with veterans. I say treat it like it's your equipment in the military. You have to know the nomenclature to know how to use it. And I think the zine is probably the same thing. Know how to use the handbrakes, like practice it and practice it, practice it, practice, even when I'm not on the Zoom meeting with you, you know. Like uh just go and practice at it and get to know it and feel it, and then next thing you know, uh muscle memory kicks in and everything is it's all natural.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

That's exactly right. And you yeah, you hit it right on the head, Scott. You know, um, where I get frustrated was is if somebody sits on something like a Zim, which is a technological device, yeah, it's not hard, it just you got to think it through, right? Yeah, I think but if they don't give it that shot, and they say, Well, I don't want it, I'm just going, man, you're just missing out on something that could be so good for you.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Uh you know, just stick with it.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

That's why we say use it for three weeks at home. Yeah, you know, and and my veterans, if a veteran called us, I give them four weeks. Use it for four weeks.

Scott McLean 39:17

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Um, and but here's the thing, I just need to make sure I'm I'm clear on this. Yeah, we are under the uh VA Federal Supply Agreement uh contract system. So what that means is that we've worked with the Veterans Administration and contracted zine. So we've already done all the pricing, all the extended warranties that we offer, we've we re we negotiated

How Veterans Get ZEEN Through VA

SPEAKER_02 39:45

everything, right? Right uh to be in the federal supply schedule for the VA. What the vet needs to do is if you're interested in a zine, you know, first of all, look at the videos and everything. Yeah, you can call us and talk to us about it, and then if you say, I want one of these things, I mean if you're a rich vet, great, you can buy one if you want, or go to your VA medical center, show them your your your uh cell phone with one of our you know, Instagrams or whatever, or a website and say, I want one of these. It's on the schedule. And you do that through your physical therapy clinic. Um, you know, they can meet with their doctor and say, This is good for me. Yes, you know, I use my legs, I'm I'm vertical more often. Everything works better in the human body when you're standing up. Yes, your your you know, cardiovascular system, your musculature, your posture in a zine. People that are normally bent over, when they get in a zine and stand, I don't know what it is, they stand straight, right? They just like are straight, and their their spouses and caregivers are going, wow, you're standing so straight, you know, it's because they're supported from below. Um and you know, it's um it's just so good for your digestive system and your lymphatic system. I mean, just your whole body, the more you're in a vertical position, you know, the better it is for you. And uh a lot of times uh physicians at the VA, they'll say, Yeah, my vet needs to they they need to stand and walk more often during the day. Yeah, and this is a device, you know. All they have to do is prescribe it, and then the vet will get that zine fully funded uh for their personal use.

Scott McLean 41:36

So I I ran a dog for 10 years. I was a military working dog handler, security police in the Air Force, and then I did it for about 22 years in U.S. Customs and Motor Protection in South Florida, Miami International, Miami Seaport, and I ran a drug dog there and uh and carrying the gun belt and the whole thing. Now, that's like somebody that has a 20-year military career, right? If you're in that type of position, um you get banged up. You just get banged up. These guys that I know that were four years paratroopers, they're banged the hell up, right? So over those years, I kind of uh I ended up with sciatica, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Oh sciatica that's painful, man.

Scott McLean 42:19

Oh lord, it's unbelievable. So sciatica can range in thresholds, like you know, it can be kind of hurts or it's debilitating. You know, I had it when getting out of bed and then just walking, like anything like that, when sciatica kicks in, it can be brutal. Um, and I was just thinking, like just getting out of bed, I would have to roll off, get on my knees and push myself up sometimes just to stand up. And I'm thinking, and then you're walking bent, right? Because you gotta kind of but this sounds like something that would benefit that too, because I have so much empathy for people with lower back problems, you know, and how they have to just get up and they move through walking. There's nothing to take the pressure off that lower back, because again, it's the center of gravity, it's the center of, and this sounds like it would be a product that someone like that might be interested in looking into just for that, because there's people with permanent lower back issues from getting out of the military from whatever jobs they were doing.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Sure. Yeah, there's a lot of um duty-related injury, you know, ranging from all over the spectrum. Um and that's why it's so good for a vet to go to their VA and say, I want one of these. Um, and a lot of VAs now. I mean, we just started, we just got this contract uh mid last year, so we haven't even had it a year yet. Wow, okay. But uh, I think we're in, I think the zine has been in 64 uh VA medical centers so far. Uh there's 170, so we got a Lot more to go to. Yeah. But a lot of these centers have zines as part of their uh physical therapy equipment.

Scott McLean 44:07

Um, if they don't, right, and then they talk to their physical therapist and then they're maybe the orthopedic doctor or whatever, um do they just say, Hey, you know, I need one of these?

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Well, or can I look at one of these? Or how do you think if they walk in and they say, I want one of these, as they're pointing to their cell phone, uh, the physical therapist will will say, What is that? Oh, wow, that's interesting. And if the vet says it's in your you know, it's in your uh contract, um oftentimes the physical therapist will call us directly and say, Hey, I have a vet that came in and is very interested in this device. Tell me about it. It looks intriguing. Physical therapists love the zine, right? We've had physical therapists going, oh my god, this is what I've been waiting for forever. You know, something that that helps people go from seating to standing to walking without changing all these different devices, you know, all in one. It's like a multi-purpose thing. So we'll work with the physical therapist. We usually do an online demo with them, and and then they'll go, Wow, this is great. They'll order a zine for the vet, we can ship it to the physical therapy clinic at their VA, and the vet can try it with the physical therapist, or we can ship it directly to the vet themselves.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Um, but the key thing about the the veteran that wants a zine is to to you know talk to their therapist, and if that veteran, which most do, has a fear of falling, uh they need to say, I got a fear of falling, you know, my leg bums out on me, you know,

Pride Fear Of Falling And Medical Notes

SPEAKER_02 45:51

or or my balance is off, you know. I I don't I don't want to fall and hurt myself. Get that on your medical record.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

That will go a long way to helping you find something that will and that's a fact.

Scott McLean 46:04

That's things that we okay, so all right. Uh pride. Right. I I'm gonna I'm gonna quote a line from my f favorite movie, uh Pulp Fiction. And it's Bruce Willis, uh Butch talking to Marcellus Wallace, and uh he they're sitting in the club, and and and Bruce Willis is sitting across from him, and Marcellus Wallace says to him, uh, the night of the fight, you're gonna feel a little sting in the back of your head. That's pride effing with you. Pride never helps. Oh and you know what? I know I said, you know what? It never helps. Pride only hurts. Yeah, that's right. If you're if you have even the slightest fear of falling, you don't tell your don't tell your friends, tell your physical therapist, exactly, tell your doctor, because that's nothing to be prideful of.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Boy, you know, and and the amount of injuries, we we did a study on on just falls, yeah, you know, just the prevalence of falls, and and it can happen, yeah. Yeah, or or you balance your inner ear balance or your strength, you know, just or you have a a small seizure or something, you know. But if you fall and you hit your hip just right, man, you could really hurt yourself. Yeah, you can hurt yourself badly.

Scott McLean 47:24

So the VA will give it to the vet for free.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Yeah, yeah, it's part of your veteran benefit. Let me repeat it. As long as there's medical necessity, uh, and again, we're it's free. We're shipping every day, we're shipping zines to vets. Yes.

Scott McLean 47:39

So uh what do you have to lose? It's free. Like I had an interview.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

It's part of your it's part of your benefit for serving the country, you know.

Scott McLean 47:48

Yeah. So again, uh don't be prideful. Look at this item and the VA will give it to you. Like you said, it's probably relatively expensive or somewhat expensive if you were going to pay for it, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Yeah, it's around five thousand dollars.

Scott McLean 48:04

Okay, uh but what's the price to pay for freedom? Yeah, or freedom of movement, I should say, right? Yeah, price less.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

That price is price less.

Scott McLean 48:13

Yes. Uh so like so and and if the VA, I was gonna ask you uh a couple questions about like warranties, but if the VA is funding it and they're giving it to you and something goes wrong with the pistons in it or or something, then it's it's a free repair too, I take it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just call us. Yeah, yeah, you just call us and and we'll look you up and we'll say,

Warranty Repairs And Basic Maintenance

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Oh, hey, you know, Sergeant So and so. Yeah, thank you for your service. And uh, yeah, your wheel, your wheel, you shredded your wheel doing something, whatever you were doing. We don't ask questions. We'll send you another wheel, you know. Um, but everything, yeah, it's a good point. Um, most things on the zine uh are you know that that if they do break, which very rarely do we have anything break, but if they do break, we can send you a kit where you can replace it. Right. And and if you can't do it yourself, there's there's um we have we have these uh contracted uh repair companies that will come to your home and you know a whole bunch of stuff.

Scott McLean 49:16

We have options. What about tune-ups? Do they need do they require little tune-ups here and there?

SPEAKER_02 49:22

They really don't. The only thing that that requires a tune-up, but you can do it yourself, is that there's cables that initiate you know the lift system, the brakes, and just like on a bicycle, you're squeezing the the brakes all the time, the cables will stretch a little. So we have these um adjusters in the line where again call us, don't do it yourself. Yeah, call us and we'll show you how to adjust and tighten those wires a little bit. Um, but there's no lubricants that are needed. Um it's a very robust uh design and and system, yeah.

Scott McLean 49:57

So you said the the max limit is 320? 325. 325. Um is there possibly in the future, because there's there's uh more than a few people out there, it might be a small percentage, but that are that are just bigger. They're just bigger people. I know. Uh, and it doesn't necessarily mean you know, I'm just gonna say the word fat. Like there's just big people. Um is there any plans in the future to maybe go

Size Limits Bariatric Plans And Pricing

Scott McLean 50:26

a little little heavier? Or I know that's a whole different design, I would assume, because now you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Well, the limitation uh really isn't the weight. It's the it's the width of the chair itself.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Um, most doorways are 27 inches wide or 36. I mean, big big doorways are 36, but standard door width is 27. Our zine is 25 and a quarter.

Scott McLean 50:55

Ah, okay, so that's the limit. Yeah, that's that's more mobility. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

So, you know, um, yeah. And and we're we're thinking, I mean, we're always thinking because we want to support always a larger customer base and and meet their needs. Uh so bariatric, we call it bariatric um zine is is something in our strategy. I just don't know when that's coming out.

Scott McLean 51:24

Okay, okay. Uh, and once again, the website is go zine z doublengozine.com. I highly, highly recommend that you go just go to the site, watch the 60-second video or whatever. It's you, it's not what you think it is. It's it's it's something that I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it. Like I said earlier, it's very streamlined. It seems very free, and they got the action. And so in the video, there's an older gentleman, he's he's a taller guy, it seems like, and he just stands, it stands him up and he leans forward. Like he shows that it's the tipping is very hard to do. It's not gonna hand him like, I guess, like, oh my god, if I lean forward, this thing's gonna tip over. No, uh, it's structurally sound.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Yeah, it it is very, it really helps with fall prevention. Yeah, and that older guy in the video, yeah. That's Garrett. Is it oh man, did we wrap this up perfectly or what? We've come full circle. Beginning to end full circle. Jeez, it's almost like we know what we're doing, Scott.

Scott McLean 52:32

It's almost like this was scripted, and I can promise you it wasn't. That's amazing. Uh, did we miss anything? Is there anything? We got plenty of time. I'm not, I know you're probably in a hurry because you're a busy man.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah, busy, busy, but that's all good. The only thing I'd just like to add is, you know, for any vet out there that, you know, they go into the website and they're going, wow, this is really fantastic, or or it it sparks curiosity. Like I mentioned before, call us, talk to us. I have a VA team, right, that just focuses on the VA because it's such a good customer of ours. Um, but also what I would highly recommend is show the video to your loved one, your caregiver, people that are helping you, right, in in in your daily life. Show it to them because you know, the zine is not only for that individual using it, it is a caregiver's dream. Yes. Right.

Scott McLean 53:31

And there's a lot of people out there that are caretakers for veterans.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Oh, yeah. And it just, you know, um, when the veteran's sitting in the zine, tired, you know, you've taken a break, uh, you can sit a little higher, and then uh it acts as the world's best transport chair. Uh somebody can push you from behind, yeah, and it's so easy to push, you know, even if you have a small spouse, so easy to push. And you don't have to be sitting at wheelchair height. You can be sitting up. You can be sitting up as as as you're being pushed around, you know, just to give you a break. But uh caregivers really enjoyed the zine and and that ability to go up and down, and it helps with transfers to get somebody from the zine to a bed, for example, that's a little higher. You know, it's just show it to it.

Scott McLean 54:22

It's a great product. It really is a great product. And again, I know people might think, oh, it's because you know you're a guest on my podcast. And uh uh trust me, they've never heard me really tout something like this. This is a great product. Oh, that's awesome. I was very, very impressed. It wasn't what I expected it, and I I think that, like I said, listeners and viewers go look at it. If you know a veteran that might need this, absolutely recommend it to them. Show it to them. Uh, and go to the VA. Talk to physical therapy. Go to the VA.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Yeah. Uh you know, and tell them that that, hey, I don't want to fall.

Scott McLean 55:00

Yeah. The fear of falling is is real. And don't be prideful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Put that in my medical record. Yeah. I don't want to fall. Yeah. I have a fear of falling. I don't want to fall. That's important. Write it down.

Scott McLean 55:12

Yeah. In that condition.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Then they have to act.

Scott McLean 55:15

We don't have to be old to have that instability. We don't.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

No, no, not at all. So and and and again, this if if you're you know thinking about this and you're not a veteran or or thinking about it for a loved one, yeah. That's not a veteran, you know, again, please just give us a call. Uh, talk to us about it. You know, we there's financial programs out there that we can refer you to.

Scott McLean 55:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Um, yeah. Yeah. And I have a uh we started a foundation also uh for for people that are are in need financially, but but need a zine, you know. Um and and call us and and we'll talk to you about it.

Scott McLean 55:55

Um and is that a nonprofit that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 55:58

It is a nonprofit. It's called Project Elevate Mobility. Okay.

Project Elevate Mobility Grant Help

SPEAKER_02 56:03

And and it's a grant program where we grant uh at least half the cost, up to half the or uh, I think it's up to $2,500 grants to people um that want to buy a zine. And and that helps a lot of folks. That's huge. Because they can they can source the other $2,500. Um a lot easier than than sourcing a full $5,000. So it it's it's a good, it's a really good foundation that that helps a lot of folks, you know. Is that on the website also? Is that it is not. It is it is something that um that I'm trying to get a separate web page for.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

Um, but but if you're interested, call.

Scott McLean 56:47

And again, what is the name of the the the foundation?

SPEAKER_02 56:50

It's called Project Elevate Mobility. All right. Project Elevate Mobility, and we call it PEM for short. And what's the website for that?

Scott McLean 56:59

Uh do we have it? Good point. Um I know this was I this is an unexpected because I didn't know that you had that, or I would have had questions about that also, but we were here for scene. Uh I love nonprofits. I love I I love the work they well, most of them. Yeah, to be brutally honest.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Yeah. Uh our our nonprofit, uh, none of our money that is donated goes to admin.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Good, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

I know that feeling.

Scott McLean 57:30

Um, we they could just look it up. They can just look it up.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Yeah, well, just call us about it. We're not we we we don't put it out there okay publicly too much yet.

Scott McLean 57:40

Oh, okay. So contact Zine and ask about the Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

If you're fine in financial need, you know, vets you're not in financial need. That's part of your benefit. Right. Uh, but other people that that really you know need help, that's what it's for.

Scott McLean 57:54

And if you're a veteran that is not tied in with the VA, because I I know veterans have their opinions. Yeah, I know the VA is not a perfect organization, but it's all we have. Nobody else is helping us like the VA is helping us, and they're trying. So it just for this reason, just for this reason alone, I would say get tied in with the VA. Go sign up, go get your rail, whatever you have to do. Uh, and look for the zine because it's a great product. Well, Rick, I want to thank you for coming on. This was a great this went fast. Yeah, that's an hour just like that. Yeah, geez, we go on all day, Scott. Buddy, I'll tell you what, some of these podcasts do. I'm only kidding. I'm only kidding. If you and if you were been on my podcast, I'm not talking about you.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

No, no, this is great. And and listen, thank you for uh, you know, for for helping vets everywhere. Um, you know, veterans are a special breed of people, and yeah, and we and we all should be you know very much appreciative of of their sacrifice. And you know, as we vets get older, um, we need help. And yeah, you know, anything we can do to help is is great. And and your mission, especially with the podcast training and everything, is just fantastic. So congrats.

Scott McLean 59:13

Thank you. Thank you. Trying to give veterans a voice to the world. So beautiful. All right, let me do my outro, stick around for one second, and uh let me just get you out of here. Uh well, we built another bridge today, and this bridge we went zening right across that bridge. It was a great bridge. I I love it. Now he's now he's up. Now he just raised himself up on the zine. Look at that. Uh we zened across the bridge. And uh, if you like it, uh go to go zine, g-o-z-w-en-n.com.

Final Advice And Closing Remarks

Scott McLean 59:45

Go to the VA when you see this product and you say, I want it, I need it. Talk to your therapist. Well, your physical therapist, my mental therapist has nothing to do with it. But uh, yes, and it's a great product, and I'm gonna get Rick out of here. Thank you very much, Rick. And uh to the viewers, if you like it and listeners, if you like it, share it. If you didn't like it, well, thanks for watching and listening for one hour and seven seconds. I appreciate that. And uh, you will see me in Hemi next week. All right.